We've always been here every single year

From ancient gays right up to today's see history is queer

Some think it's a new way

But we've got something to say.

History is very, very, very, very, very gay.

Hey, everyone, Lee here for a fun bonus interview episode.

I'm very excited to bring to you today a conversation with my new

friend, Kit Heyam. They are a leads based in the UK awareness trainer, heritage practitioner,

writer and academic. They have written for academic publications as well as articles for

Notches and the Public Medievalist. I believe you also just recently did an article on

Joan of Arc, which was really fun. We're going to be chatting today about trans shit. Heck

yeah. Kit's newest book before we were trans came out in the UK in June, I believe, and it's coming out in the U.S. mid-S. mid-September, and it illuminates the stories of people across the globe from antiquity to the present, whose experiences of gender have defied binary categories.

And so we're going to have a conversation

today about trans stuff and about gender stuff and how do you talk about trans history before

we have the word trans, which is something that we do a lot on this podcast. I'm so excited to get

into conversations about language and just the work that Kit has done. So hi Kit,

hello, how are you? Finally, I'm great. Thank you so much for having me really

excited to talk about all the trans stuff at all the trans history. Heck yeah,

as you say. Trans stuff forever. Yes. Yeah, I think we were talking a little bit off mic about how a couple of friends, a couple of folks, you know, in this world had mentioned to me like, oh, hey, there's this person who's coming out with this book, you should check it out.

And I was literally going to be going and pressing free order when your publicist emailed me and was like, hi, would you like to have Kit on your podcast to talk about this book? I will send you a copy. And I was like, great, this is awesome. I love it when these things converge. And I'm like, this is something that I already wanted to read. So I'm really glad that we got to connect. And it is, you're in the UK. So it's morning for me and it's probably what, late at night for you? It's not late at night.

It's 7 o'clock. It's probably right 7. Yeah. So, yeah, glad we could find the time to line up and it wasn't the middle of the night for either of us. Right. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, we'll just kind of start with getting to know a little bit about you. I mean, I mentioned that you do a couple of different things that you do, you know, trans awareness and kind of trans competency training. You're a heritage practitioner, which I would love to hear more about. And obviously, you're a writer and a historian. So could you tell folks who are listening just a little bit more about you and your background and how you got into this work. Hi, sure. So I've been working

in, I guess what you might call queer history activism for quite a while. And that's actually

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