Yule Kwan is a fascinating character, and you don't need to take my word for it.

You can hear it for yourself in the first interview I did with Yule, where we talked about winning the TV show Survivor,

his lifelong struggle to overcome debilitating anxiety issues, and the practical benefits of knowing game theory.

You may want to listen to that first if you haven't already, or feel free to dive right into part two.

Welcome to people I mostly admire with Steve Levitt.

I brought Yule back for a second conversation because there were still so much more to cover,

including his second stint on Survivor and the deeply touching altruistic reason why he went back on the show.

And his experience is running Google's side of the high-profile Google Apple Contact Tracing Project.

I'm also interested in hearing what's up next for him, and I'm hoping

to convince him that he should run for president.

Welcome back, Yule. I'm so glad we're getting the chance to talk again. So as we discussed in our first interview, you're not someone who repeats himself a lot in life. You've cycled through over 15 jobs since law school, and yet you recently decided to go back on Survivor for a second time for the 40th season. Was it a tough choice to go back?

Yeah, it was really hard. I honestly never thought I was going to go back. I thought the chances

were basically zero. First of all, I have two young kids, and I'd also started a new job. But I talked

to my wife, and she was surprisingly in favor of it. And at the same time, and this is just a coincidence,

one of my close friends from the first time I went on Survivor, his name was Jonathan Penner.

She and I became close friends after the show ended, and I became close with his family, including

his wife, Stacey and their two children, Eva and Cooper. He's a fascinating person, incredibly accomplished.

He's a writer. He's an actor, producer. The thing that really drew me to him, though,

was he was incredibly devoted to his family. And in 2017, this wife, Stacey started exhibiting

these weird symptoms where she would start stumbling when she was walking. She'd start slurring her

speech.

She was ultimately diagnosed as having ALS.

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