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Your Undivided Attention

Your Nation's Attention for the Price of a Used Car — with Zahed Amanullah

Your Undivided Attention

Center for Humane Technology

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4.81.5K Ratings

🗓️ 6 October 2020

⏱️ 43 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Today’s extremists don’t need highly produced videos like ISIS. They don’t need deep pockets like Russia. With the right message, a fringe organization can reach the majority of a nation’s Facebook users for the price of a used car. Our guest, Zahed Amanullah, knows this firsthand. He’s a counter-terrorism expert at the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, and when his organization received $10,000 in ad credits from Facebook for an anti-extremism campaign, they were able to reach about two-thirds of Kenya’s Facebook users. It was a surprising win for Zahed, but it means nefarious groups all over the African continent have exactly the same broadcasting power. Last year, Facebook took down 66 accounts, 83 pages, 11 groups and 12 Instagram accounts related to Russian campaigns in African countries, and Russian networks spent more than $77,000 on Facebook ads in Africa. Today on the show, Zahed will explain how the very tools that extremists use to broadcast messages of hate can also be used to stop them in their tracks, and he’ll tell us what tech and government must do to systematically counter the problem. “If we don’t get in front of this,” he says, “this phenomenon is going to amplify beyond our reach.“

Transcript

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0:00.0

Before we get to the show, we just wanted to welcome all the new listeners who discovered our podcast since watching the new Netflix documentary The Social Delema.

0:08.0

The response to the film has been unbelievable. It was briefly number one in India, number one in Canada, number two film in the

0:15.1

United States on Netflix, and the result for this podcast has been astonishing.

0:19.7

As of this morning, we're actually the number one tech show on Apple Podcast. We're getting about a

0:24.4

hundred messages per day from all around the world in Brazil, Argentina, Sri Lanka, Indonesia

0:30.3

from people saying, wow you know this film has really opened my eyes and is showing us,

0:35.2

this thing that I always thought was true, but now I can see and understand why it's happening.

0:40.4

And in a way, there's a little bit of hope in knowing that everyone else is seeing the same problem at the same time.

0:45.5

As a friend of mine says, we're not alone, it's okay, and there's a way out.

0:50.0

And speaking of a way out, you know, how are we going to change this massive system?

0:55.5

Well, it's going to take change from all sides, just like climate change.

0:59.0

You know, you simultaneously need to get people inside of Exxon to be part of the solution and reinvesting all their money into

1:05.2

regenerative energy and carbon capture. Just like we want to get Facebook to be as good and

1:09.8

healthy and regenerative as possible in the midst of the transition to better and more humane technology.

1:15.0

But we're also going to need new platforms and new experiments in social design and how these things can be designed in a way that does not break down truth, that doesn't erode our mental health,

1:24.4

that doesn't rely on social feedback loops of approval that end up ruining the psychology of a generation.

1:29.9

Governments are not regulating this fast enough.

1:32.4

It took us something like six years to get GDPR, the European Privacy and Data Protection Regulations.

1:37.0

And it's taken more than a year or two to get the California Privacy Legislation enacted.

1:41.0

So given the fact that the legislative changes are going to take

1:44.4

some time and these products are still emitting a kind of digital fallout of harms that we know about

1:49.6

from the film, one thing that can change fast enough is global culture, what we think and what we do.

...

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