Welcome back to the Word on Fire Show. I'm Brandon Vaat, the host and the senior publishing

director. When society dismisses the natural law tradition, is it any wonder that we see

volunteerism take its place? That's what Bishop Baron asks and his recent conversation

with Ben Shapiro on Ben's daily wire show. They sat down for a short discussion about natural

law, family, happiness and much more. And we're happy to share that discussion here with you on the

Word on Fire Show. So sit back and take in this conversation between Bishop Baron and Ben Shapiro. Enjoy.

Joining us on the line is Bishop Robert Baron. He is Bishop of the diocese of with known

a Rochester in Minnesota and founder of Word on Fire Catholic Ministries. He's also a number one

Amazon bestselling author. He's published a bunch of books his latest is called The Great Story

of Israel. Election freedom. Holiness Bishop, thanks so much for joining me. So I really appreciate

it. And good to be with you. So it does feel for people of traditional theological bent is though

basic traditional values are now under assault. We have a couple of big news stories about that

that I wanted to get your take on. Obviously one of the big stories is this case before the Supreme

Court 303 Creative LLC versus Alina's in which a an evangelical Christian woman whose web designer

says that she won't commission marriage websites for gay couples. And the court seems to be taking up

the the question as to whether this is a creative services versus regular services question or whether

it's a legitimate religious belief or not. How should Americans view a case like this?

Well, I think we have to allow people that believe in traditional marriage to articulate that

publicly and not have their speech compelled and forced. I think that's what alarms people the most.

It's a it's a cultural move now not just to assert the validity of gay marriage but to

compel those who hold opposite views to celebrate in even a public way to celebrate what they don't

believe in. I think it's the coercive element of this that is really problematic. So you put it

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