Welcome back to the Word on Fire show. I'm Brandon Vat the host and the content director here at Word on Fire Catholic Ministries joining me as he does almost every single week is the auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese Los Angeles Bishop Robert Barron. Welcome.

Hey Brandon how you doing? Oh we were before he got someone someone came on one of my sites and said why do you say hey to Brandon? That's it sounds so trendy. I thought I'm just hay sound trendy. I'm so offended by the informality of the greeting. I guess like maybe we've changed a bit like we say hi when I was a kid and Hay is more common now. But I just sort of smile out is that like a millennial thing to say hey greetings your excellency greetings to you my son. Hey

tell us about this event you just did at USC their campus ministry invited you to come out and give a talk there give us an update it was fun yeah I was going down to LA to record the 12 lectures on Newman which will come out later with our Word on Fire Institute so before the night before I went down and went to the Crusoe Center which is a beautiful Catholic Center at USC. And I just did a talk on the nuns you know who are they why are they leaving how do we get them back.

And very lively crowd good questions afterwards so young crowd it was the college kids and those who are kind of in that orbit so I got a kick out of that it was a good experience.

And didn't they just build this magnificent new campus ministry center something like that a church that is really something it's not giant you know it's kind of like a little gem a little jewel you know stained glass and and fine art and really striking and I whenever I go there I find that I'm going to say hi to you.

Whenever I go there I've been there two or three times now I always use it as an example of the via pool gratuitous you know the way of beauty if you want to draw people to the church here's this very non-threatening way to do it but it's a great example of it.

Another thing I wanted to update people on after we did the last episode on Dr Jordan Peterson we've done maybe two or three of those now every day I'm getting multiple emails from people saying when are Bishop Baron and Jordan Peterson going to get together and we're happy to share with listeners that in about three weeks here at the end of March.

You are going to be on Jordan Peterson's own podcast so he's got this podcast that releases episodes only once a month so it's very very sporadically so it's kind of a big deal that he's going to devote a whole episode to talking with you are I'm guessing you're pretty excited about that yeah I've been following him for a long time we've never met I've never spoken to him directly but you know I've appreciated what he's done and I think he's an intriguing figure on the scene today so I'm happy to talk to him as I say he's such a great person.

As I say he's such a great step beyond this fiercely secularist kind of atheist stuff that's so prominent in the culture and he's I think opened some very important doors and windows toward you know a more positive approach to religion.

Now is he all the way there I say no judging from what I've heard but I think he's a very open sort of spirit and you know a guy that's certainly very bright and willing to consider different points of view and so I'm eager to talk to him.

And just another update we're working on a couple of more angles to get a big stage event between Dr Peterson and Bishop Baron hopefully sometime in 2019 so we're hoping this is the first of many interactions between the two of you.

Okay let's turn to the topic of today's episode today we're talking about the metaphysics of prayer and a big shout out to sister Miriam and Sweden who first suggested the idea to me she had a lot of good reflections and questions on what prayer is and how it works not just how to pray we've done episodes on that what's actually going on when we pray.

So I guess let's start off with that basic sort of question what is prayer metaphysically speaking and how does it work what's going on.

Well if we want to stay at that metaphysical level always keep in mind that God is unchanging it doesn't mean God is distant and aloof don't make that mistake that's the mistake made by a process theology and so on.

God is unchanging God is unconditioned absolute in his being God is act as pure as so our prayer was never meant to change God is not meant to persuade him otherwise you know or inform him of something he doesn't know see all those are our false ways of doing it and actually lead to a kind of manipulation of God which is spiritually unhealthy.

So metaphysically speaking we're not talking about changes in God but I like the category of metaphysics it means you know at the level of being prayer as John of Damascus famously said is the raising of the mind and the heart to God notice pleases from our side of the metaphysical divide it's we're lifting ourselves up to a contemplation of God we're changing you know something really metaphysical is happening for sure to us as we're going to do it.

So we're going to do it for sure to us as we raise our minds and hearts to God but one of the fundamental errors to avoid is that I'm in this sort of game of manipulation vis-à-vis God when I pray it's never that it's always a response to a grace that comes first it's always an ordering of my life to God you know but I like the category of metaphysics I think that's good one.

So maybe you've spoken before about St. Iernace's idea that God doesn't need us and why that's such a good and liberating fact it's not something we should be ashamed of but when it comes to when it comes to prayer does that mean God doesn't need us to pray for him it's not for his benefit.

No it's not like as though God is one of the mythological gods or goddesses that you know they're powerful and they're impressive but they do have a kind of needy relationship to the world they they require our praise they require our Thanksgiving if they don't get it they get pretty mad the same way you know a fallen human being would if you know I'm not given the deference that I deserve and so I'm going to be annoyed at you you didn't come groveling to me sufficiently so I'm not going to give you what you want.

See that's a very fallen human context what happens is often we project that on to God and we think that's what's going on with God you know but no of course God doesn't need our praise which means that's why you say quite correctly that's a great and liberating thing it means that the praise we give to God we're down to our benefit so the kindness says that you know many times that.

The prayer we offer to God and the service we offer to God is not for God's sake but for our sake that God.

Delights in our coming fully alive and part of that process is what we call prayer which is the ordering of one's life unto God.

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