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Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, the Spectator's Daily Politics Podcast.

I'm Cindy Yu and I'm joined by Isabel Hardman and James Sorsight.

So this morning, the Chancellor Roshu Sunaq was questioned on whether or not he would

stick to the pledge of the pension's triple lock,

which is where state pension is upgraded every year in line with either average earnings or the CPI or by 2.5%, whichever is higher.

And Rishi Sunak didn't seem to commit to sticking to that.

Here's what he had to say.

Well, on the triple lock is government policy, but I recognize people's concerns

about what that might mean, given some of the numbers that are being put around. I would say

that those numbers are speculation at this point, and we don't know for sure what will happen.

But what I can say is that we will approach these decisions with

fairness in mind. Fairness, both for pensioners but also for taxpayers. Isabel, what did you make

of that? Yeah, so this is the big debate that's been going on in the Conservative Party. I mean,

there's been a big debate for a long time about whether the triple lock is actually something that the Conservatives should have committed to in terms of it being a tall financially sustainable or indeed fair on the younger generation of voters who will not benefit from it.

But the particular problem at the moment is that the state pension could rise by 8% from next year.

And I mean, this would obviously cost the government a huge amount of money.

It would also be something that, again, intergeneration leave would be quite difficult to justify,

particularly if you're removing the £20 a week uplift to universal credit,

so people who are in work who are really struggling to make ends meet

and not getting the support that they say they need,

...