Will Bitcoin's New Phase Change It Forever? And Is the 4-Year Cycle Dead? - Ep. 974

Unchained

Laura Shin

News, Tech News, Business News

4.6 • 1.3K Ratings

🗓️ 10 December 2025

⏱️ 63 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The crypto sector has celebrated a lot of policy wins in 2025, but price wise, it has arguably been a year to forget. In this episode of Unchained, Bitwise Head of Research Ryan Rasmussen and Arca Portfolio Manager David Nage join host Laura Shin to discuss the disappointing crypto markets and why their outlook on 2026 is more positive. They also explained why Vanguard's crypto pivot is a huge deal, questioned whether Bitcoin could ever be unseated by privacy coins, and discussed why they don’t see the bubble in the DAT market hurting crypto. Need liquidity without selling your crypto? Take out a Figure Crypto-Backed Loan, allowing you to borrow against your BTC, ETH, or SOL with 12-month terms and no prepayment penalties. They have the lowest rates in the industry at 8.91%, allowing you to access instant cash or buy more Bitcoin without triggering a tax event. Thank you to our sponsor, Figure! Unlock your crypto’s potential today at Figure! Guests: Ryan Rasmussen, Head of Research at Bitwise David Nage, Portfolio Manager at Arca Previous appearance on Unchained: The LayerZero-Wormhole Contest Shows How to Value a Crypto Business Links: Unchained: Bitcoin Resets Above $90,000, but Can Bulls Keep the Momentum? Bits + Bips: Vanguard’s Crypto U-Turn, Tether/MSTR FUD & Picking Future Winners Bits + Bips: Why the Markets Now Have a Bullish Setup Franklin Templeton Rolls Out First Tokenized Fund in Hong Kong Why Every Company Will Have a Stablecoin — and Why One L2 Isn’t Enough Grayscale Files to List Zcash ETF What Ethereum Will Look Like When It Implements Its New Privacy Focus Other relevant links: Bank of America Broadens Access to Crypto Funds SEC's Paul Atkins touts 'tokenization’ as key to modernizing US markets Larry Fink and Rob Goldstein on how tokenization could transform finance My Highest-Conviction Bet in Crypto Stablecoin payments on Stripe cost 1.5% of the transaction amount. Credit card fees are as high as 3.5%. Less than half of the cost! Bitcoin’s “Facebook Moment” Timestamps: 🚀 00:00 Introduction 🤔 01:42 Is the four-year cycle dead? 💡 3:50 Why David says Bitcoin is having its “Facebook moment” ⚡️ 11:42 Why Ryan does not believe Bitcoin OGs are disillusioned 💥 14:43 Why David thinks liquidity may be returning to the market ❕️ 17:21 What is driving Vanguard and Bank of America's adoption of crypto 🚨 24:34 The importance of Bitwise 10 Crypto Index Fund's ETF transition 💡 28:30 Why BITW excludes memecoins, stablecoins and, wrapped tokens, etc. 🔮 31:15 What tokenization means for the future of finance 👀 35:56 What the future holds for digital asset treasuries ⚠️ 39:45 How unwinding of DATs could affect Bitcoin 🧏 41:11 What Stripe's 1.5% fees suggest about the future of stablecoin competition 📈 46:43 Why David says stablecoin adoption is similar to email 🤔 48:55 Could Bitcoin be toppled as the privacy meta rises? 🔮 56:45 Ryan and David share their 2026 crypto outlook ✴️ 1:02:01 Ryan’s 2026 Bitcoin price target Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	My view personally is that the four-year cycle is dead and will prove itself dead in
0:05.9	2026. In general, institutional adoption and regulatory clarity and additional institutional infrastructure,
0:13.8	I think, has reduced the size of drawdowns and added liquidity and buffers to the market.
0:19.0	With Larry Fink stomping his feet that every asset, including equities and bonds, are going to be tokenized,
0:27.4	you would be hard pressed if you were vanguard to see BlackRock, you know, saying these things and doing these things and building up the capacity to do these things and saying, sure, we're just
0:38.3	going to stay the course and say that Bitcoin and crypto or rat poison, you know, squared as,
0:43.3	as Munger said. That doesn't work because institutional investors, family offices, they all talk
0:49.9	to each other. They're all different, but they all talk to each other.
0:56.4	Hi, everyone. Welcome to Unchained. You know, a hype resource for all things, crypto. I'm your host,
1:01.1	Laura Shin. Before we get started, a quick reminder that the new here on Unchained is investment advice.
1:06.1	This show is for informational and entertainment purposes only, and my guest and I may hold assets discussed
1:11.5	on the show. For more disclosures, visit UnchainedCripto.com. Looking to unlock your crypto's liquidity,
1:18.1	Figure offers crypto-backed loans with an industry low 8.91% fixed rate. They're the only major
1:24.0	provider with decentralized MPC custody and new liquidation protection.
1:28.7	Take out a loan at figure markets.co slash unchained.
1:32.7	I'm here with Ryan Rasmussen, head of research at Bitwise, and David Nage, portfolio
1:37.6	manager at ARCA. Welcome Ryan and David.
1:40.5	Hey, Laura. Hey, great to be here, Laura.
1:42.9	So, you all, I was on vacation last week and actually not checking crypto Twitter or
1:48.3	crypto news very much.
1:50.1	But it looks like I didn't miss a lot, at least when I look at the market activity.
1:56.2	I think if you had asked most people in crypto a year ago, they wouldn't have predicted that the price of Bitcoin would be lower than it was back then.
	...

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