Before we kick off this week's History Extra podcast, we want to tell you a little bit about our sponsor, the charity Guide Dogs.

You might know Guide Dogs for its life-changing pooches, but did you know, it also offers a range of other services for children and adults with sight loss.

In fact, the charity provides lifelong support to help people with vision impairments, achieve things they might never have thought possible, from developing new

hobbies to pursuing their dream career. Find out how you can support

Guide dogs incredible work at guidedogs.org.uk.

What if your bank did more than just bank? With HSBC Premier,

it's like carrying your own entourage in your wallet. Premier wealth management, check.

Premier health perks, all clear. Premier travel benefits, you're covered. And Premier International Banking,

see, we, yo, yeah. In fact, everything's premier when your bank account is.

Search HSBC Premier, HSBC UK, opening up a world of opportunity.

Apply with £100,000 annual income or £100,000 savings or investments with HSBC UK or Premier status abroad.

Welcome to the History Extra podcast, fascinating historical conversations from the makers of BBC History Magazine.

Debates about whether museum artefacts should be returned to the cultures that made them

have repeatedly made headlines in recent years, but can calls for their return overlook the

wishes of those very cultures people seek to champion. Well,

Professor Justin M. Jacobs, the author of Plunder How Museums Got Their Treasures, spoke

to Matt Elton about the voices that are ignored and why these debates need to be more nuanced.

Justin, thank you so much for being with us today to talk about your book, Plunder,

how museums got their treasures.

And by reading out that title, I need to make sure that I put a question mark after Plunder,

because this is a central point of the book.

Before we get into the arguments that you want to make and that you outline in the book,

...