The big thing that I think people ought to recognize is that our identities, our sources

and meaning, they're sort of like plants. They require time and energy to grow. And one of the

risks of living such a work-centric existence is that when you're off work, you often don't have the energy

to do anything else. That's why so many people come home and then, you know, flip on Netflix

and turn on, turn off their brain for a few hours and then go to sleep and then rinse and

repeat. You know, the days become indistinguishable from one another. From the moment we ask our

kids what they want to be when they grow up, we exalt the dream job as if it were life's

ultimate objective. And that is the topic of today's conversation with Simone Stolzoff.

He is the author of an amazing book that is so well-timed called The Good Enough Job, Reclaiming Life from Work. Now, one of the things

that I feel that those of us who identify as creators, as entrepreneurs, as people who want to get the most

out of life, is that we often over-index on the relationship between the work that we do and

our identity. And I've talked in previous shows about how difficult or challenging that can be.

Today's episode, it hits different.

Simone is an independent journalist and a designer from San Francisco.

He's a former design lead at the global innovation firm called IDEO.

And he regularly works with folks like the Surgeon General of the U.S., the chief

talent officer at Google on how to make the workplace more human.

And as an entrepreneur, his work spoke to me because so many times I felt like I was on a

very lonely slog, a very difficult, hard uphill journey, and I still do to this day.

So I'm always looking for things that can sort of fortify me against those feelings or help me

understand those feelings and then get better at not falling into the trap, that identity

and job, how it can hold us prisoners. So today's conversation

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