Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Fountain, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Pandora, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. Celestia, a data availability layer for blockchains, was launched last October to much fanfare. The platform takes a modular approach to blockchains, allowing developers to post data onto it without the need for smart contracts or execution. This makes it extremely useful for scaling roll-ups and other layer two technologies.  Celestia co-founder Mustafa Al-Bassam and COO Nick White join Unchained to discuss what Celestia is and how it works, how data availability sampling allows for more scalability, how Celestia compares with other data availability layers, whether Celestia could become a data availability layer for Bitcoin, and comparisons between Celestia and Solana.  Show highlights: Mustafa’s background and how his project called Lazy Ledger ended up becoming Celestia Nick’s vision for modular blockchains Why Mustafa believes in the “10,000 roll-up” endgame Why Mustafa thinks that gaming and NFT chains work better on a modular blockchain What Celestia is and how it resembles the publication of an article in a newspaper What data availability sampling (DAS) is and how it works to ensure that the data is available and accurate for validators How DAS allows for more scalability What types of applications can be built with this type of modular architecture Mustafa’s explanation of the concept of Blob stream and blob space How a roll-up can be an independent or sovereign layer, not just a layer 2 to a layer 1 How Celestia competes with other DA layers, like the future EigenDA The role of the TIA token in the Celestia ecosystem  How Mufasa hacked the CIA when he was 16 years old and how he transitioned into crypto Whether Celestia could become a DA layer for Bitcoin layer 2 roll-ups Whether Solana could end up becoming an Ethereum layer 2 using Celestia for data availability  The proposal to extend the functionality of Celestia without smart contracts in the base layer  Thank you to our sponsors! Popcorn Network Polkadot Guests: Nick White, COO at Celestia Labs Previous appearances on Unchained: Three Crypto Pioneers on Crypto’s Monolithic vs. Modular Debate Mustafa Al-Bassam, cofounder and CEO at Celestia Labs Links Modular vs. monolithic Alchemy: Modular vs. Monolithic Blockchains Visa: Monolithic vs. modular blockchain Chris Burniske’s tweet on modular vs monolithic “The horrific inefficiencies of monolithic blockchains” by polynya Blockworks: A spicy salvo launched in the monolithic vs modular debate Unchained: What Is the Blockchain Trilemma? Celestia Celestia’s explanation of modular blockchains Data availability Data availability sampling An introduction to sovereign roll-ups Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices