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Forbes Daily Briefing

Why Judges Cannot Agree On How Much Trump’s Fraud Should Cost Him

Forbes Daily Briefing

Forbes

Careers, Business, News, Entrepreneurship

4.612 Ratings

🗓️ 27 August 2025

⏱️ 5 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

It’s difficult to measure the impact of lies. Just ask the justice who called out Trump for fraud last week, while handing him a $500 million gift.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

Here's your Forbes daily briefing for Wednesday, August 27th.

0:05.0

Today on Forbes, why judges cannot agree on how much Trump's fraud should cost him.

0:12.0

Judges in two courts have now found that the President of the United States took part in a

0:17.0

year's long fraud that deceived financial institutions about his net worth. They differed,

0:22.9

however, on how much Trump should pay as a penalty. Judge Arthur and Goran concluded in February

0:29.4

last year that Trump owed about a half billion dollars. Appellate Justice Peter Moulton,

0:35.9

in an opinion issued last week, throughout that penalty,

0:39.4

dropping the figure to zero. Neither did much math to arrive at those numbers. The trial judge

0:46.5

and Goran attempted to gauge how much Trump's lies saved the now president in interest on his

0:52.3

loans. But he relied on a sloppy calculation. Michel

0:56.6

McCarthy, an investment banker that the state of New York called to testify, noted that Trump

1:01.6

secured lower interest rates after offering personal guarantees on loans. McCarty then compared

1:07.7

those rates to higher ones lenders told Trump he would pay if he did not personally guarantee his loans.

1:13.5

He used the difference to estimate the amount of interest Trump saved across four loans spanning 10 years, getting $168 million.

1:22.9

That calculation, however, rested on a faulty premise.

1:27.2

Trump did not have to lie about his net worth to give banks a personal guarantee,

1:31.7

and therefore secure cheap rates.

1:34.3

He lied, not just of necessity, but also out of habit.

1:38.5

Lying is what he does, especially when talking about the size of his fortune.

1:43.1

To more accurately calculate how much Trump's dishonesty saved him,

1:47.0

someone would have had to calculate how much Trump's interest rate

1:50.0

would have changed if he offered a personal guarantee,

...

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