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This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross.

A new sequel to the film Joker opens next month, starring Waukeen Phoenix as The Joker and Lady Gaga as Lee Quinzel.

This film is a dark and unusual musical.

The soundtrack hasn't been released yet, but we'll hear some of the songs a little later. My guest Todd Phillips directed and

co-wrote both Joker's films. Joker is an arch-fillin of The Batman Stories and Lee

Quinzel is a version of Harley Quinn, the Joker's Partner in Crime before going her own way.

Phillips describes the films as an origin story, but not THE origin story. Both films are connected to the DC Comics

universe but they're more like art house films than superhero films. In

Phillips first Joker film Phoenix plays Arthur Fleck, a troubled man with a history of mental health problems.

His dream is to become a stand-up comic.

His actual job is dressing as a clown for an agency that rents out clowns for parties and

occasions. One day on the way home from work, still wearing his clown makeup, he's

attacked on the subway by three young men. He shoots and kills them. Crime has

gotten so bad in Gotham City where the film is set that he becomes a folk hero.

His dream comes true when he's invited to be a guest on his favorite late night show hosted by Murray Franklin, played by Robert DeNiro.

But Arthur realizes Murray has been mocking him, so he shoots and kills Murray live on TV.

In the new sequel, Joker for Lee Adieu,

...