Oh, the silence of this spirit, in the wakein' in the night, in the watching, in the wakein'

You stand by my side. Oh, Jesus, come and wait with me. Come and wait with me.

La Cray, Christen Dumay, Jamar Tisby, Russell Moore.

Why are you still in a Christian?

This is Phil. The last five or six years have been rough for many thoughtful, faithful Christians.

The embrace of Trump and Trumpism, the rise of ethnic nationalism in xenophobia, conspiracy theories and abuse scandals have rocked the church.

Many have walked away and discussed. Some have spoken out and paid the price.

And yet rather than walking away, have remained committed to Christ and his church.

We wanted to sit down with a few of those who have cried out, like voices in the wilderness, who've been attacked by the church they love, and yet still remain.

We wanted to ask a simple question. Why are you still a Christian?

Jamar Tisby is a professor of history at Simmons College of Kentucky in Louisville.

He's the author of The New York Times' best-selling book, The Color of Compromise, The Truth about the church's complicity and racism, and how to fight racism.

Tisby's efforts to help the white church come to terms with its own racial history led to speaking invitations and conference appearances and then a brutal backlash, as he became the face for many of the dangers of wokeism in the church.

I sat down with Jamar Tisby to find out why, after all, the attacks. He's still following Jesus.

I'm here with Jamar Tisby. You may know him from prior appearances. He was on episodes 422 and 440, talking about his books, The Color of Compromise and How to Fight Racism.

I first met Jamar, I think summer of 2020, when the world was going crazy, and we were talking about race, and there was a moment where it seemed like white evangelicalism was willing to listen, and then it passed.

Yeah, remember that? Ever so quickly, yes. A couple of moments.

Okay, so let's back up, though. Jamar Tisby, did you grow up in the church?

Not really, so I went to Catholic schools, K through 8, so God talk was sort of all around.

In our house, we weren't practicing anything, we weren't going to church or doing much at all, but there was no hostility there. There was no opposition to it, just wasn't a pride work.

Did your family have any relationship with the black church? Were your grandparents connected with churches?

You know, not a ton, not really, so I think that was part of it. And then my parents moved around a few different times, and depending on where they were, they would go to church more regularly or not, but by the time I came along, that wasn't a habit.

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