This is the Cato Daily Podcast for Monday, August 7th,

2023, and Caleb Brown.

Now at its fifth year, Cato's Arms Sales Risk Index

aims to improve US decision-making about arms sales.

The bad news in this year's report, the Biden administration has not departed from the American

tradition of selling arms to risky nations.

I spoke with co-author Jordan Cohen about the index and what it means for security.

You put together this arms sales risk index that tells us exactly what?

So the risk index tells us the average risk of the U.S. arms sales in any given year. And so we look at the country's risk and we use a variety of

different metrics to measure this risk. And generally speaking, we find that arms sales go to countries that are in conflict or to countries that abuse human rights and only encourage that behavior more.

Okay, so the United States sells arms to our friends?

169 different countries since 2009. Well, but we also sell to our friends. Our friends are included in there.

Well, but we also sell to our friends.

Like our friends are included in there.

So France, Germany, Canada.

Yep.

Other NATO members?

Pretty much all of NATO. Yep. Other NATO members? Pretty much all of NATO.

Yep. But also, United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Mexico, the Philippines, countries that are known for abusing human rights

and getting involved in conflicts where the US doesn't have much of a

strategic interest. Okay so so, and I guess just before we dig into some of the meat of what your index reveals

this time, when the US sells weapons to Saudi Arabia and then Saudi Arabia uses those weapons in Yemen,

...