Hi, Science Quickly listeners. I'm Bree, Associate Books Editor at Scientific American.

If you love the stories we share here on the podcast, over at Scientificamerican.com,

there's a whole world of stories waiting for you. You'll find my book recommendations and curated reading lists,

along with deeply reported articles and science news that helps you stay informed, curious, and connected.

I love finding books that

push me to think about the world in new ways, and hope our stories do this for you too. And if you're

in New York, join me on November 20th at 7.30 p.m. at Greenlight Bookstore for a panel discussion

with some of the incredible authors we recommended this year. Now, if you believe in the power of

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Thank you. For Scientific American Science quickly, I'm Rachel Feltman.

Thank you. quickly, I'm Rachel Feltman. As children, many of us are taught that being good means being obedient, doing what we're told

by parents, teachers, and authority figures.

But that conditioning can make it incredibly difficult to speak up when we

know something is wrong, whether that means correcting a mishandled coffee order or standing up against

injustice. So how can we learn to overcome these instincts when it really counts? My guest today is

Sanita Sa, a professor of management and organizations at Cornell University, and the author of

Defy, the power of no in a world that demands yes. She thinks we could all stand to be a little more

defiant, and she's here to tell us why. Thank you so much for coming on to chat with us today.

It's wonderful to be here. So tell us a bit about your background.

...