In the Black Hills of South Dakota, a pine-scented breeze rises from the forest floor.

High above, a lone sculptor dangles by ropes.

He leans into the mountain monument he carves, chiseling history itself.

The stern faces of four U.S. presidents, granite guardians,

peering watchfully across the landscape, Jefferson, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, and the sculptor's

personal favorite, George Washington. Steadying himself on our founder's cheekbone, the sculptor works shaping an eyelid, only to find himself lost in the gaze of America's first president.

For the sculptor, there is no doubt. This is the greatest of them all.

But was he right? Was Washington truly the finest leader this nation ever had?

It's the timeless question, an endless debate.

Who was the greatest president in the history of the United States?

Good day. I'm Don Wilden here with another episode of American History hit. To the credit of the United States and its system of democratic elections, we have chosen a long list of chief executives who can legitimately vie for the esteemed, if subjective title, best ever president of the United States.

Stiff competition.

Now, we lionize these men.

All men, of course, incredibly so at this point.

We've made icons of so many of them, saints in many quarters.

Hard to imagine the British carving a Mount Rushmore of prime ministers.

Give them time, of course.

But we in America love our presidents, especially the good ones.

Last week, we asked, who was American history's worst president?

No spoilers if you haven't caught that episode yet. This week, we flipped the script, opposite pole, if you will, all about the elite, the crem de la crem, the legends, the heavyweights, in the ultimate contest, who was the greatest U.S. President? Let's get ready to rumble.

Now, in the visitors' corner, we have our friend and returning guest, Dr. Jeremy Surrey, Professor of History at University of Texas Austin, the big campus, author of acclaimed volumes like appropriately, The Impossible Presidency, the rise and fall of America's highest office, as well as the host of This Is Democracy podcast, which I highly recommend for the times we're in.

Jeremy, welcome back. So grateful your greed. Well, I'm glad we get to talk about the good guys this time. I know, right. We've got to balance these things out. This week's the other half of the equation. If you can have a worst president, as we discussed last week, then you have to choose the best, the premium stuff. But before we drink that nectar, let's talk about what makes a great president. I'll start

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