This is Ross Coulter and you are listening to that UFO podcast.

Talking of academia and the UAP emerging problem, I've heard you refer to it as,

it's a emerging problem.

Late 2024, the second annual Saul Symposium, you mentioned academia's place there. And when it comes to

UAP, trying to figure out aspects of it, academia can shed a light on depending on their discipline,

UAP and UFOs seem to be such a divisive and complex problem that many people still don't want to

come near. And can you think of any issues

similar to that that have been as stigmatized over the centuries or decades as the UAP

conversation? And how was that overcome that it could be applied? Yeah, I, you know,

you AP are so incredibly unique as a scientific and intellectual problem and also a broad social and political problem that I'm not sure that we have anything, but, you know, kind of, you know, we have analogies here. We have analogous cases, but they're not, they're not great analogies. But I can point to one, which is psychedelics.

And I point to it in part because some of the same people

that are willing to fund UAP, scientific, and policy research,

have been very active in the psychedelic space.

And you have to keep in mind, psychedelics seem today like small potatoes.

Like, I mean, you're in Scotland post the 1990s and the rave culture where MDMA is, you know,

who didn't do it in the UK at the time or the U.S.

Or in certain parts of the U.S., it doesn't seem like a big deal to talk about psychedelics.

But in the natural sciences, and certainly in the U.S. government, I mean, that was a completely third rail topic.

And it was third rail because it was so countercultural, so associated with religion,

and also because people, I say this in good humor, they kind of behave themselves the way a lot of UAP people do.

It became a place to go.

It was a topic to surround, that attracted people that not only were heterodox, but, you know,

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