I think that sometimes suffering is so intense that it breeds a feeling of isolation.

And you really do feel like nobody understands what I'm going through right now.

I'm all alone in this.

And then suddenly when you find out, you know what, I'm not alone in this.

And somebody reaches out to you who can,

you don't have to explain what you're feeling because they already know what you're feeling.

The power of that is palpable for Christians that are going through it.

Welcome to the Crossway podcast, a show where we sit down with authors each week

for thoughtful interviews about the Bible, theology, church history, and the Christian life.

I'm Matt Tully, and today I'm talking with Liggin Duncan. Ligin currently serves as

Chancellor and John E. Richards Professor of Systematic and Historical Theology at Reformed Theological

Seminary. Before that, he was a pastor for 17 years and co-founded together for the gospel.

He's also the author of numerous books, including When Pain is Real and God Seems Silent from Crossway.

Today, Ligin and I discuss how Christians can face profound, life-changing suffering with their faith intact.

He shares stories of severe suffering from his own ministry as a pastor, reflects on God's

role in our suffering, and how he often uses it to draw us closer to himself, and offers

encouragement from God's word to listeners currently in the midst of a season of intense pain.

Let's get started.

Liggin, thank you so much for joining me on the Crossplay podcast today.

It's great to be with you, Matt. Thanks for having me.

So I want to start our conversation today by quoting a verse from Psalm 88, which you call the most tragic Psalm in

all of Scripture. And in verse three of that Psalm, the psalmist writes, my soul is full of troubles.

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