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Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

When the Lawyers are Lawless

Amicus With Dahlia Lithwick | Law, justice, and the courts

Slate Podcasts

News Commentary, Politics, Government, News

4.63.1K Ratings

🗓️ 1 March 2025

⏱️ 49 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This past week has seen firings at the Pentagon, an Executive Order targeting a private law firm, the installation of a podcaster and January 6 denialist as #2 at the FBI, and an incident in which an audience member at an Idaho townhall was wrestled to the ground and led away in zip ties by private security that answer to no lawful police entity. Is this what happens when the lawyers, police officers, military officials and other law enforcement organizations who are meant to keep us all safe, are sidelined or conscripted into lawless behavior?  On this week’s episode of Amicus, Dahlia Lithwick speaks to Asha Rangappa, a former FBI special agent, editor at Just Security and author of the substack The Freedom Academy with Asha Rangappa. Asha explains what happens when people who are hellbent on using the law to break the law achieve positions of power, and whether the safeguards still in place can hold. Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi, I'm Dahlia Lithwick. Welcome back to Amicus. This is Slate's podcast about the courts and the law and the Supreme Court.

0:23.8

We are yet again in one of those Trump administration weekend, not weekend modes, in which what was once a sleepy Friday night to Saturday morning suddenly reverts to emergency bat phone calls to the U.S. Supreme Court and midnight stays, all of which

0:39.6

suggests over and over that John Roberts is going to play Alfred to Donald Trump's Batman.

0:45.4

On Tuesday, U.S. District Judge Amir Ali ordered the Trump administration to, by midnight Wednesday,

0:53.3

release more than $1.5 billion in funds for

0:56.6

already completed foreign aid work. That's money that has been held up for weeks after Trump

1:02.2

ordered it halted. The Trump Justice Department went right to the D.C. Circuit, then on up to

1:07.9

the Supreme Court to challenge this order, claiming it would take, quote,

1:12.0

multiple weeks to meet the judge's request. And on Wednesday night, John Roberts issued an

1:17.7

administrative stay in order to give the court a few days to review written arguments in the case,

1:24.4

ordering that all briefing was due Friday at noon. This case may well be the first

1:30.2

collision between a monarchic president and a monarchic court. As of this taping, no news, but by the time

1:36.9

you're listening to this fast-moving story, that may have all changed. We will, of course, as ever,

1:43.1

bring you the analysis you need if and when

1:45.3

they reach the merits. I assure you that we are watching, and now on with the show.

1:51.2

In recent weeks, a lot of focus, ours included, has been trained on the deconstruction of

1:56.9

the administrative state, eviscerating USAID and CFPB and the Department of Education,

2:02.6

firing thousands of probationary workers without cause,

2:06.1

and ensuring that infants abroad will lose access to life-saving HIV treatment.

2:12.0

Also in the mix, an incoherent and chaotic,

2:14.9

what did you do last week email that went out last Saturday, continues

2:19.4

to torture federal workers? The non-agency and not an actual department at the helm of all this is,

...

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