From WNYC Studios. I'm Brian Lerer. This is my daily politics podcast. It's Wednesday, October 16th.

Let's talk about the F word. No, not that F word. The one that many people don't like to say out loud in the election context,

though some people do. Listen to how it came up yesterday in Kamala Harris's interview with the radio and TV host Charlemagne.

One mind that is about taking us forward and progress in investing the American people, investing in their ambitions, dealing with their challenges.

And the other, Donald Trump, is about taking us backward.

The other is about fascism. Why can't we just say it?

Yes, we can say that.

He brought it up.

She agreed.

As it happens, just a day earlier, Tom Nichols from the Atlantic had a piece called Donald Trump's fascist romp.

It's a word that not many people actually understand.

It can sound like a smear used too casually when we think of what the most famous fascist from history like Mussolini actually did, right? But it's a concern that keeps coming up and a word. So let's talk

about the F word, why it matters or not in the context of this election. With me now is Atlantic

magazine staff writer Tom Nichols, who is also the author of books,. With me now is Atlantic Magazine staff writer Tom Nichols,

who is also the author of books, including our own worst enemy, the assault from within on modern

democracy, and the death of expertise, the campaign against established knowledge and why it

matters. He also has the Atlantic print edition's November cover story, cover story for the month of the election, called The Moment of Truth, it argues that a Trump re-election would gut George Washington's vision of the presidency.

Tom, thanks for coming on. Welcome to WNYC today.

Thank you, Brian. Thanks for having me.

Why Trump's fascist, Rob? What do you mean by the word? You do acknowledge in the article that the

word is overused as a denunciation that many have understandably tuned out for that reason.

Yeah, you know, before I became a writer only a few years ago, I was a professor and I taught tuned out for that reason. Yeah.

...