Hi, this is Ira Flato, and you're listening to Science Friday.

Today on the show, how to define genius.

People will say to me, but, you know, some people are just smarter than other people.

That's what geniuses are.

And actually, that's really not how we award the label.

What makes someone a genius?

Are they the smartest, most creative, most innovative people?

How about those with the highest IQ?

Well, my next guest argues that who we consider a genius

tells us much more about what we value as a society than any

objective measure of brilliance. And without a compelling or quirky life story, you're unlikely

to be elevated to the level of genius. Joining me now to explore the complicated and coveted

status of genius is my guest, Helen Lewis, staff

writer at the Atlantic, author of the book, The Genius Myth, a curious history of a dangerous

idea. Welcome to Science Friday. Thank you very much for having me. You're welcome. Now,

anybody who starts a book with a curious history of a dangerous idea, I got to ask, what do you mean, a dangerous idea? Well, I think it's something that people get wrong, don't they? I mean, I've been having lots of conversations around this book where people will say to me, but, you know, some people are just smarter than other people. That's what geniuses are. And actually, that's really not how we award the label it usually goes to somebody who encapsulates

some quality that we like or we find that their life story is a kind of parable so someone like

Stephen Hawking would be a good example you know there are lots of physicists of his generation

with equivalent achievements but he's the one who became a kind of pop culture celebrity.

He's the one who got to be in The Simpsons because people found his personal story so inspiring.

So he had ALS, a progressive form of muscular dystrophy and ended up in a wheelchair.

And people found that idea that somebody's brain was still active, even as their body was

...