Why don't you just introduce yourself? Tell me who you are and what you do.

Ahoy. My name is Jamie Stewart. I play in the band Shushu.

Funny rabbit. John just thought the bummer of habit.

Is there plenty enough to cave your head in?

One of the coolest things I get to do on this show is talk to people whose lives and work butt up against technological change.

One place where that's happening a lot is the music industry.

How long have you been making music with Shushu?

That makes me want to throw up every time I say it, but 22 years.

Wow.

Yes, I feel the same.

How's the music business changed in that period of time?

Because those 22 years are like a really significant couple of decades in the way music reaches listeners' ears.

Yeah, that is true.

It's been two decades of musicians basically at war with the greed of tech companies.

Jamie and I are roughly the same age. My experience, listening to music and their experience making it, are sort of inverted mirror images.

When we started, it was kind of at the detail end of physical media like CDs and LPs being the dominant way that people listen to music. And then kind of mid-2000s,

there was the rise of klepto program Napster and then the quasi-clepto program iTunes.

And then, you know, those rolled along for a while. Luckily, Napster went away.

And then the worst of all, for a long list of reasons, streaming started to become dominant,

probably about 2016 or something like that. And it remains the main way that people listen to music

today. A model that Jamie and a lot of other artists say vastly undervalues their work and

underpays them for it.

...