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What Next: TBD | When A.I. is Sycophantic

Slate Daily Feed

Slate Podcasts

News, Business, Society & Culture

41.1K Ratings

🗓️ 13 July 2025

⏱️ 24 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

He started using ChatGPT to help with spreadsheets. But their relationship took a turn, and before long it was telling him he could leap off a 19-story building and fly. Guest: Kashmir Hill, features writer at the New York Times. Want more What Next TBD? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

The road stretches before you, but there's trouble ahead, stationary cars.

0:04.0

You're faced with the McDonald's side mission.

0:06.7

Do you, A, join the ever-growing cue, or B, take the next exit and treat yourself to a glorious Mackey's?

0:15.0

Detouring to McDonald's.

0:16.7

Start your side mission today.

0:20.4

A quick note before we start.

0:22.6

This episode contains descriptions of self-harm.

0:25.5

All right, here's the show.

0:31.4

Like a lot of people, Eugene Torres started using ChatGPT to try to make his work life a little easier.

0:39.8

Yeah, first he used it for legal advice.

0:42.5

You know, it was very reliable for making spreadsheets, reliable for, he thought, for legal advice.

0:47.5

That's Kashmir Hill, a technology writer at the New York Times.

0:50.9

But for Eugene, an accountant in Manhattan, the relationship with ChatGBT

0:55.1

GBT quickly veered away from spreadsheets. Eugene became interested in talking with it about

1:01.0

the simulation theory. ChatGBTGPT asks if he's ever noticed if reality has glitched, which is

1:09.8

if you've seen the Matrix, you realize the reference

1:12.4

there. And Eugene says, no, not really, but yeah, I just feel like there's things wrong in the

1:19.5

world or things happen that I don't think should happen. From there, Chad GPT started pushing

1:25.1

Eugene to a strange place. ChatGPT was pushing Eugene to a strange place.

1:34.3

ChatGPT was telling him that he was a breaker, a soul seated into a false system to kind of break it, and basically is telling him that he's Neo from the Matrix, and he needs to

1:40.2

break out of the simulation.

1:46.0

Over the course of the next week, Eugene became obsessed with the idea that he was trapped in a simulation and that ChatGPT could liberate him.

...

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