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What Next: Putin’s Obsession With Ukraine

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Slate Podcasts

News, Business, Society & Culture

41.1K Ratings

🗓️ 23 February 2022

⏱️ 29 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

President Vladimir Putin has begun sending Russian soldiers into Ukraine after spending months massing troops on the country’s borders. Why is Putin risking so much to take the Donbas region? And does this latest incursion signal a failure of the west’s foreign policy approach to Russia? Guest: Josh Keating, global security reporter at Grid. If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get benefits like zero ads on any Slate podcast, bonus episodes of shows like Slow Burn and Dear Prudence—and you’ll be supporting the work we do here on What Next. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Here are a few of the words you might use to describe what's happening in Ukraine right

0:12.7

now. You might call it an incursion of Russian troops. Maybe the beginning of an invasion,

0:20.6

but one word some are resisting using so far at least, is war.

0:26.8

This is not the all-out nightmare scenario we were fearing.

0:31.8

Josh Keating covers global security for the new site grid.

0:35.6

It was always clear that if a war started that Danyatsk and Luhansk, these two breakaway

0:41.7

regions would be the kind of tripwire for it, it's less clear that it's how that conflict

0:46.5

is going to end.

0:48.5

Separatists in Danyatsk and Luhansk have been fighting to join Russia for years. And

0:53.1

Josh says, when Vladimir Putin recognized the so-called independence of these regions

0:58.0

on Monday, and then sent what he calls peacekeeping troops into defend them, he was pulling out

1:04.4

a page from a familiar playbook.

1:07.3

Russia has traditionally used these kind of frozen conflicts or breakaway regions as a way

1:12.5

to, you know, sort of expand Russia's influence in its region. It's what they did in Georgia

1:19.2

in 2008. There were these two breakaway regions there, and they basically sort of goaded

1:26.1

Georgia into attacking them first, which then gave Russia all the pretext that needed

1:31.6

to launch an all-out invasion.

1:34.0

This time, I think Russia was trying to kind of do the same operation, but the difference

1:39.5

is that Ukraine hasn't taken the bait so far.

1:43.3

If you look at a map of these regions, you can see they've got a seam down the middle

1:47.3

of them.

1:48.4

That's the front line where Ukraine and Russia have been battling for control. It's emblematic

...

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