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What Next | He Wrote About Anti-Fascism—Then Fled the Country

Slate News

Slate Podcasts

News, News Commentary, Politics

4.66K Ratings

🗓️ 16 October 2025

⏱️ 35 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In an executive order, Donald Trump declared “Antifa” a terrorist organization. As it isn’t an organization, there aren’t leaders to target, so zealous conservatives took aim at Mark Bray, a Rutgers professor who wrote a book about fighting fascism eight years ago. The clumsy attempts to get him fired didn’t bother him—but the doxxing and death threats were enough to convince him he needed to leave America. Guest: Mark Bray, assistant teaching professor at Rutgers, author of Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook. Want more What Next? Subscribe to Slate Plus to access ad-free listening to the whole What Next family and across all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe today on Apple Podcasts by clicking “Try Free” at the top of our show page. Sign up now at slate.com/whatnextplus to get access wherever you listen. Podcast production by Elena Schwartz, Paige Osburn, Anna Phillips, Madeline Ducharme, and Rob Gunther. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

For the last few weeks, Professor Mark Bray has had to brace himself when he opens up his email,

0:12.1

because he's never quite sure what kind of messages he's going to find inside.

0:16.0

The first one simply said, I'll kill you in front of your students.

0:20.0

That's simple.

0:22.4

Another one said, I'm going to burn down your house and kill you in front of your students. That's simple. Another one said,

0:28.3

I'm going to burn down your house and kill you when you run out. Mark teaches history at Rutgers University. A few years back, he wrote this book, Antifa, the anti-fascist handbook. It's a cheeky

0:36.1

title for what is essentially the history of a movement.

0:40.5

Last month, when President Trump declared Antifa was a domestic terrorist organization,

0:46.3

that is when his inbox started to fill up.

0:49.7

Not this most recent Saturday, but the previous Saturday I was watching, Yankees, Blue Jays,

0:53.5

Game 1, the playoffs, and bottom of the first, I got an email. It said something like, we're

0:59.5

watching you when it had the address. And I knew I had to leave my home. Right away.

1:05.2

Well, yeah, pretty much.

1:08.7

Mark wants to make something very clear.

1:12.1

He's not a member of Antifa.

1:15.0

After conducting extensive interviews, he certainly understands Antifa's internal logic,

1:20.9

but he's not their spokesperson.

1:22.9

Not like that matters anymore.

1:25.5

Where are you right now?

1:27.7

I'm in Spain.

1:29.5

I'm not advertising, you know, where in Spain.

1:33.1

You know, I do have security concerns.

...

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