What is "white culture," anyway?

Code Switch

NPR

Society & Culture

4.6 • 14.9K Ratings

🗓️ 21 February 2026

⏱️ 28 minutes

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Summary

Jeremy Carl — President Trump's nominee for a senior State Department role -- was called out for his commentary on "white erasure" during his Senate confirmation hearing earlier this month. He defended the idea that "white culture" is in danger of being erased in the U.S. and that white people face more racial discrimination than any other group in country. So on this episode, we're talking to the Princeton historian Nell Irvin Painter about her book, The History of White People, and how definitions of whiteness have morphed over time depending on the interests of the people creating those definitions.

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0:00.0	This year on ThruLine, NPR's History Podcast.
0:03.4	For generations, an American quest has shaped the world.
0:07.1	Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness.
0:10.2	Now, 250 years in, what is that pursuit really about?
0:14.7	Join us each Tuesday for an essential new series, America in Pursuit, from ThruLine, on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts.
0:24.1	Just a heads up, y'all.
0:25.1	This episode contains some salty language, which means it's been to be some cousin.
0:29.8	What's good, listener?
0:31.0	You are listening to Code Switch.
0:33.1	I'm Gene Demby.
0:34.2	All right, so let's just set the scene.
0:36.2	Okay, so last week, there was a Senate
0:38.6	hearing in Washington for President Trump's pick for Assistant Secretary of State for
0:43.0	international organizations within the State Department. This is somebody who will be working
0:46.8	closely with Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, and other folks to shape American foreign
0:51.5	policy. And Trump's pick for this post is a dude named
0:55.9	Jeremy Carl, a dude who has some very particular positions. I think that while, of course,
1:02.4	all races in different contexts can be subject to really severe discrimination, that when we
1:08.6	look at our legal structures, white Americans are often very disfavored
1:12.6	in overt ways. We're seeing this in the Small Business Administration, many other places.
1:16.7	So your belief is that white Americans face more discrimination, at least prior to the Trump
1:22.6	administration, fixing this than black Americans? On average, Senator, yes, that's correct,
	...

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