Welcome to Back from the Abyss. I'm Dr. Craig Hecock.

Today I sit down with my good friend, Saj Rosvi, a frequent guest on Back from the

Abyss, and my go-to person on all things trauma. Together, Saj and I discuss a recent listener

letter, as well as implications for trauma treatment in general. I think this episode will

primarily be of interest to therapists, but still, I think there's

something in here for all of you.

I get so many emails from you listeners, and it's really one of the highlights of this podcast.

I get, gosh, beautiful anecdotes and stories and thank yous and sometimes please for help or

treatment advice. I got a letter recently that really struck me and I immediately contacted the

listener, a woman named Laura, and I said, could I, um, could I read your letter in the podcast?

And I said, could I sit down with Saj and we could discuss it because she actually mentioned Saj

in the letter. And so right now, I'm in Saj Ravis's basement. Hey, Sash. Welcome, Craig. Welcome

to my basement. Yeah, it's good to be in your basement. And, um, my sheets are washing and you're washing machine. Um, it's good to be in your basement. And my sheets are washing and you're

washing machine. It's good to be here. So I'm going to read this letter and then I'm going to

let Saj kind of lead it because she brings up just, I think, some of the most powerful and

thoughtful questions of any one who's ever written into me. And I knew Saj would be the person to start to address these.

So here we go.

Hi, Dr. Hickok.

In recent months, I've become a regular listener back from the abyss.

I first found you through the episodes with Saj Rosfi when I was learning about PSIP, which is Sages, psychedelic somatic model. And after finishing

those, I just kept listening. Thank you for your heartfelt work, curiosity, and honesty in the

field of psychiatry and healing. As someone relatively new to psychedelics, your podcast has become a

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