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The Political Scene | The New Yorker

What Broke the U.S.-China Relationship?

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Politics, Obama, News, Wnyc, Washington, Barack, President, Lizza, Wickenden

4.23.3K Ratings

🗓️ 12 June 2025

⏱️ 45 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Michael Luo, an executive editor of The New Yorker, joins the show as guest host. He sits down with Peter Hessler, a staff writer who spent more than a decade living in and writing about China. They discuss the Sinophobic history behind the Trump Administration’s threats to revoke Chinese students’ visas, how the COVID pandemic reshaped the U.S.-China relationship, and how escalating tensions between the United States and China stand to change the global order. 

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Transcript

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0:00.0

Welcome to the political scene. I'm Michael Luo, an executive editor at The New Yorker.

0:07.4

I'm filling in today for Tyler Foggett. On Wednesday, President Trump announced on Truth

0:12.6

Social, our deal with China is done, claiming that the two countries had resolved their

0:18.6

differences in a trade standoff.

0:25.9

And that plans to, quote, aggressively revoke the visas of Chinese students in the U.S. have been paused. But the details of the agreement remain sketchy.

0:30.1

I followed the U.S.-China relationship for a long time and chronicle the story of the

0:35.0

Chinese in America in my book, Strangers in the Land.

0:39.3

I wanted to get a deeper sense of how we got to this fraught moment.

0:42.3

So I sat down with New Yorker staff writer Peter Hessler,

0:45.3

who's lived in and covered China intermittently for more than a quarter century,

0:50.3

and has also spent time recently reporting on Chinese students caught in the middle of it all.

0:55.5

We spoke on Tuesday.

1:02.2

Hi, Peter. It's great to have you on the show.

1:04.7

Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Michael.

1:06.1

I'm really excited to talk to you. I can't think of anyone who writes about the lives of

1:10.6

regular Chinese people better than you do.

1:14.3

But before we zoom in, I wonder if we can zoom out a bit.

1:18.7

Over the last few decades, we've seen China and the United States become increasingly interdependent.

1:24.6

But it feels like we're approaching a breaking point. Why is this happening now?

1:31.2

Yeah, I mean, it is a reaction to that, obviously, right? I mean, that I think this crept up on people.

1:36.2

People were in denial. They didn't realize it was happening. It concerns them the way that these

1:41.5

economies are linked and not just the economies, but to be honest,

...

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