What Broke the U.S.-China Relationship?

The Political Scene | The New Yorker

WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Politics, Obama, News, Wnyc, Washington, Barack, President, Lizza, Wickenden

4.2 • 3.3K Ratings

🗓️ 12 June 2025

⏱️ 45 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Michael Luo, an executive editor of The New Yorker, joins the show as guest host. He sits down with Peter Hessler, a staff writer who spent more than a decade living in and writing about China. They discuss the Sinophobic history behind the Trump Administration’s threats to revoke Chinese students’ visas, how the COVID pandemic reshaped the U.S.-China relationship, and how escalating tensions between the United States and China stand to change the global order.

This week’s reading:

“The Victims of the Trump Administration’s China-Bashing,” by Michael Luo
“The Uncertain Future of a Chinese Student at Harvard,” by Peter Hessler
“Looking for the National Guard in Los Angeles,” by Emily Witt
“The Farmers Harmed by the Trump Administration,” by Peter Slevin
“The Private Citizens Who Want to Help Trump Deport Migrants,” by Jessica Pishko
“An Inside Look at Gaza’s Chaotic New Aid System,” by Isaac Chotine

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to the political scene. I'm Michael Luo, an executive editor at The New Yorker.
0:07.4	I'm filling in today for Tyler Foggett. On Wednesday, President Trump announced on Truth
0:12.6	Social, our deal with China is done, claiming that the two countries had resolved their
0:18.6	differences in a trade standoff.
0:25.9	And that plans to, quote, aggressively revoke the visas of Chinese students in the U.S. have been paused. But the details of the agreement remain sketchy.
0:30.1	I followed the U.S.-China relationship for a long time and chronicle the story of the
0:35.0	Chinese in America in my book, Strangers in the Land.
0:39.3	I wanted to get a deeper sense of how we got to this fraught moment.
0:42.3	So I sat down with New Yorker staff writer Peter Hessler,
0:45.3	who's lived in and covered China intermittently for more than a quarter century,
0:50.3	and has also spent time recently reporting on Chinese students caught in the middle of it all.
0:55.5	We spoke on Tuesday.
1:02.2	Hi, Peter. It's great to have you on the show.
1:04.7	Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Michael.
1:06.1	I'm really excited to talk to you. I can't think of anyone who writes about the lives of
1:10.6	regular Chinese people better than you do.
1:14.3	But before we zoom in, I wonder if we can zoom out a bit.
1:18.7	Over the last few decades, we've seen China and the United States become increasingly interdependent.
1:24.6	But it feels like we're approaching a breaking point. Why is this happening now?
1:31.2	Yeah, I mean, it is a reaction to that, obviously, right? I mean, that I think this crept up on people.
1:36.2	People were in denial. They didn't realize it was happening. It concerns them the way that these
1:41.5	economies are linked and not just the economies, but to be honest,
	...

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