You're listening to the Michael Shermer show.

All right, everybody.

Hey, it's time for another episode of the Michael Shermer show.

As always brought to you by Skeptic Society, Skeptic Magazine.

Hey, check out our new issue just came out.

Look at that theme, crime and punishment.

Hey, we're taking on new topics, cultural war topics, political topics, economic topics, stuff that's really important.

Yes, we'll still cover UFOs and psychics and

Bigfoot and all the aliens and all that conspiracy stuff, but there are other pressing

issues that we have to address, one of which is political polarization, which we're going to

address today. My guest is Kirk Gray. He's a professor in psychology and neuroscience at the University of North Carolina at Chapel

Hill, where he directs the deepest beliefs lab.

Yes, there's a lab that studies the deepest beliefs.

Well, I kind of have one here in our offices at Skeptic, but I think they actually conduct real research there.

And the Center for the science of moral understanding. Kurt received his PhD in social psychology from

Harvard University with over 120 published scientific papers. He explores the psychology

of morality, politics, religion, and AI. Okay. Ray is a recipient of numerous early career and best paper awards,

and his findings have been featured in the New York Times, The Economist, Scientific American,

Wired, and Hidden Brain. He's a regular guest on podcasts and has spoken at multiple TEDx events,

and he's a co-author of the book, The Mind Club, Who Thinks, What Feels, and Why It Matters?

He was almost a geophysicist, but a night trapped in the Canadian wilderness convinced him otherwise.

I can understand that.

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