This is the John Fugel-Sang podcast.

This is serious XM progress. I'm John Fugel-Sang.

Just as human bodies face infectious diseases or viruses,

human minds face infectious ideas.

We are living in a time of misinformation and disinformation and media culture that doesn't want to call lies lies

The same media culture that will spread lies if it helps with clicks and ratings a time of AI and chat gPT, a time of troll farms and ceaseless

big live propaganda. The question is how can we keep in infections from warping our thinking?

I am so pleased to welcome Andy Norman to the show. He is the

award-winning author of Mental Immunity, Infectious Ideas, Mind Parasites, and the search

for a better way to think. You may have read his stuff in psychology today,

Scientific Americans, psychiatric times, skeptic, humanist, he's been on everything from

NPR to the Joe Rogan show and his research is all about the Mind's

immune system and using the emerging

science of mental immunity as an antidote to disinformation, propaganda, hate,

and division. It's a real pleasure to welcome Andy Norman to Sirius XM.

Thank you John. You sum that up so beautifully. I'm not sure you need me here that

that was I was it. I'm a fan of what you're doing with the the mental immunity project. You're really trying to reduce the public's

susceptibility to bad information to that pseudoscience or conspiracy theories or propaganda or just plain all lies like we used to call them but but your whole contention is that you you can dispel this by equipping people with skills to be able to identify and reject lies and manipulative content.

Yeah, like about a century ago we learned how to in essence educate our body's immune systems to fight off new diseases and that's

what vaccines do. Vaccines actually teach your immune system how to fight off things

that hasn't developed antibodies for.

Well, we're learning now that the mind has an immune system of its own

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