This is Hidden Killers with Tony Brewski.

You thought your family dynamics were complicated.

If you know anything about the Frankie family, you may be thankful for what your dynamics are.

We're going to be diving in here into one of the most twisted true crime cases in recent years.

Devil in the Family, a new documentary on Hulu peeling back the layers of the Ruby Frankie case,

exposing how extreme parenting, blind faith, and a little too much YouTube, fame created the perfect storm for abuse to thrive. The most fascinating and frustrating figure in this case, his name's Kevin Frankie.

He's the husband and he's the dad of those six kids.

The father who claimed he was shocked by everything that happened by the person admitting,

he led a controlling therapist and his wife run

his life like a cult. So was he a victim of psychological manipulation or was he an enabler who found

it easier to play along than to question what was happening? And most importantly, how does someone

get so lost in a belief system

that they abandon their own children to suffering? To help us make sense of all of this,

psychotherapist, Chavon Scott, joining us, Chavon, with someone this deeply embedded in a belief system

like Kevin Frankie was.

I know it's a broad question, but how do they rationalize this sort of behavior

and things that seem so obviously harmful to anyone on the outside?

Yeah, from the beginning, my term, since I first heard about this case, was pathological passivity for Kevin,

that even before Jody Hildebrand came into their lives, he was letting Ruby run the show with her

harsh parenting practices, like withholding food from the kids, things that, you know, no normal

parent would even consider something like that.

So I saw him as suggestible, submissive, and Ruby as so perfectionistic that she kept up this

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