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On the Media

Wars Are Won By Stories

On the Media

WNYC Studios

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4.68.7K Ratings

🗓️ 22 January 2025

⏱️ 27 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Brooke spoke to Elyse Graham, author of “Book and Dagger - How Scholars and Librarians Became the Unlikely Spies of World War Two."

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

This is on the media's midweek podcast. I'm Brooke Gladstone. We are living in history all of the time.

0:08.3

Nevertheless, there are some times that seem more historic than others. Like now, when academics and artists and even librarians have come under attack.

0:19.3

I mentioned that particular sign of these times because I just

0:23.0

read a new delightful book by historian Elise Graham, Professor of Sociology at Stony Brook University,

0:30.7

called Book and Dagger, how scholars and librarians became the unlikely spies of World War II. The book is a breezy and

0:40.2

enthralling read, but assiduously footnoted for those who might question her very compelling

0:46.3

argument that without this unheralded core of peculiar recruits, that war might very well have been lost.

0:56.5

The library is full of stories about spies, but none of those stories are about spies in the library.

1:02.8

You say that the war was won on the front lines, but it was one with books?

1:08.2

We often think of World War II as the physicists wore. Soldiers were out fighting on the

1:13.2

battlefield, and then it was finally won by a bunch of physicists in New Mexico who dropped an atomic

1:18.4

bomb. That itself was a successful misinformation campaign. How so? In early 1945, a fellow named

1:26.7

Henry DeWolf Smythe was called into an office in Washington

1:30.1

and asked if he would write this book that was about a new kind of weapon that the U.S. was developing.

1:36.6

The guy who had called him into his office, Vannevar Bush, knew that by the end of the year,

1:41.8

the U.S. was going to drop an atomic bomb that had the potential

1:45.3

to end the war, but also that as soon as it was dropped, everybody was going to want to know,

1:49.8

what is this weapon, how was it made, and so forth. Smythe accepted the assignment. It was published

1:55.9

by Princeton University Press about a week after the bomb was dropped. It explained how the U.S. made the bomb,

2:02.6

but it told a very specific kind of story, the Oppenheimer story that you see it in the movies,

2:07.6

where a group of shaggy-haired physicists figured out how to split the atom and fission and all

2:13.2

of this stuff. The thing is, the physics of building an atomic bomb is in some respects the least

...

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