9, 12, 12, 10, 28, 2. 23.

This is Deep State Radio.

Coming to you direct from our Super secret studio in the third sub-basement of the Ministry of

Snark in Washington, D.C. and from other undisclosed locations across America and around the world.

Welcome to We're All Gonna Die Radio, where we talk about the things in the news that might

be scaring the bejesus out of you and why you should or shouldn't be terrified about them.

I am one of your co-host Heather Williams.

My partner in crime, John Wolfstall, is on travel this week and he's probably somewhere over

the Atlantic as we speak but we will

carry on we will persevere without him and he will be back. Today we are talking

about the risk of nuclear weapons use in Ukraine and I am thrilled to be joined by

Mike Kaufman senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Hi Mike, thanks for joining us.

Hi Heather, thanks for having me on your podcast.

So the slightly terrifying news this week comes from Jim Shuto at CNN.

He has a new book out that is called The Return of Great Powers,

and he did an interview with Deep State Radio's Fearless

leader, David Rothkoff, a few days ago,

that you should definitely check out.

But one of the more sensational findings of the book was that in late summer fall of

2022, Intelligence reports have indicated there was a higher risk of nuclear weapons

use by Russia and Ukraine than previously thought and specifically

...