meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
The Meb Faber Show - Better Investing

Vineer Bhansali - “The Market is Severely Underpricing the Probability of a Sharp, Catastrophic Loss to the Downside" | #82

The Meb Faber Show - Better Investing

The Idea Farm

Investing, Management, Business

4.8978 Ratings

🗓️ 22 November 2017

⏱️ 67 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In Episode 82, we welcome trader, fund manager, and author, Vineer Bhansali. Per usual, we start with Vineer’s backstory. It involves his physicist-origins, an unexpected move to an assortment of trading desks, and a run-in with the great, Fischer Black. Meb soon dives in, asking about main strategies Vineer uses with his group, Longtail Alpha. Meb reads a quote from LongTail’s website… “LongTail Alpha’s sole focus is to find value in the tails of financial asset return distributions. Either in the left tail as a risk mitigation hedge on multi-asset portfolios, in the right tail to add convexity to an investor’s risk exposures, or in both the right and left tails to produce alpha from convexity and volatility opportunities in a hedge fund structure.” Meb asks Vineer to use this as a jumping off point, explaining his framework, and how he thinks about tail strategies. Vineer tells us that, at LongTail, they believe the probability distribution of returns for asset classes and multi-asset portfolios is actually not bell-shaped. Rather, there are many imperfections and anomalies in the market. And the tails of the distribution are quite different than the central part. While the central part of the curve tends to have many, smaller moves, the tails tend to be dominated by infrequent, large events. With this in mind, the goal is to implement various options strategies to help you position yourself for these tail vents. Keep in mind, there are left tail and right tail events (and a hedged strategy in the middle). Vineer references them all. Meb mentions how, right now, most investors are more concerned with the left tail events. So how should an investor think about implementing a tail strategy? And is it even necessary, given Vineer’s statement in a recent Forbes article: “…people generally feel better when they believe that they have portfolios with built-in insurance, i.e. protection against losses, even though the expectation (or average return) of a portfolio with or without such insurance is the same.”   Vineer discusses the difference between “volatility” and “permanent loss of capital.” What you want from a left-tail paradigm is a methodology that keeps you in assets, serving your long-term benefit. Generally, you want to be invested in the stock market. Vineer tells us the name of the game is to be able to survive the relatively short-but-harsh pullbacks, and even accumulate more assets during those times. Given this, Vineer has a 4-lever framework he uses to help create a robust left-side portfolio. You won’t want to miss this part of the discussion. As the conversation unfolds, you’ll hear the guys discuss how, even though there is some concern about a correction now, the markets are still severely undervaluing the price of a sharp downturn. And option premia are incredibly cheap by historical standards. Meb then asks for more details about actually implementing a left tail strategy. Vineer’s answer touches on understanding and identifying how much exposure one wants to equity risk and inflation risk. Then, there’s the need to understand one’s risk threshold tolerance – the “attachment point” at which you cry uncle, whether that’s being down 10%, 15%, 25% or more. Given this attachment point, an investor could then go to the options market and buy “insurance” at this level, for a duration of time suitable to the investor.  There’s way more in this episode: option selling strategies (instead of buying insurance, you’re the one selling it in order to generate yield)… A great piece from Vineer about selling bonds as a way to hedge your portfolio… How the traditional inverse relationship between market direction and volatility might not be holding up as much (look at Japan recently – surging markets and volatility together)… Vineer’s thoughts on artificial intelligence and “how to beat the machines”… And of course, his most memorable trade. All this and more in Episode 82. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Welcome to the Mebb Faver Show, where the focus is on helping you grow and preserve your wealth.

0:12.6

Join us as we discuss the craft of investing

0:15.6

and uncover new and profitable ideas,

0:18.4

all to help you grow wealthier and wiser.

0:20.8

Better investing starts here.

0:23.0

Mepp Faber is the co-founder and chief investment officer at Cambria Investment Management.

0:31.0

Due to industry regulations, he will not discuss any of Cambria's funds on this podcast.

0:36.7

All opinions expressed by podcast participants are solely their own opinions and do not

0:41.0

reflect the opinion of Cambria Investment Management or its

0:43.6

affiliates. For more information visit cambria Investments.com.

0:49.6

Welcome podcast listeners we're rolling into the holidays here. It's almost

0:56.0

Thanksgiving. We have a great show for you today. I'm really excited about it our

1:00.4

guest. He's right down the road road he's worked at all sorts of places

1:04.4

Citibanks, Solomon Brothers, CSFB, PIMCO on various desks such as

1:10.0

fixed-income arbitrage proprietary trading group head of quant portfolios.

1:14.9

Most recently he started his own firm called Long Tail Alpha.

1:18.6

He's also an author, written four books, some white papers, has a great blog.

1:23.4

Welcome to the show, Veneer Bensali.

1:25.2

Happy to be here.

1:26.2

So Veneer, let's rewind back.

1:28.8

You know, I think a lot, it's pretty common today for PhDs in physics to head into the Quant Finance world but

1:38.6

kind of when you started that that may not have been the most traditional career path.

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Idea Farm, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of The Idea Farm and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.