Of all the podcast episodes I've ever done, no guest has surprised me more than

artist Wendy McNaughton, which is why her episode is without a doubt, one of my all-time favorites,

and why we're doing an encore presentation of that episode today.

Going into the interview, I worried we'd have nothing in common, nothing to talk about.

Within minutes, I already felt a bond with her.

By the end, she felt like one of my best friends.

It was just plain weird.

Listening back to the episode now,

I couldn't help but cry at various points.

My seven-year-old daughter, Anna, she didn't know what to think.

I don't think she's ever seen me cry before.

I'm curious whether you as a listener can feel that bond developing.

I hope you can.

The advice Wendy McNaughton gives about saying goodbye to the dying might be the best

advice anyone ever gave on this show. My guest today, Wendy McNaughton, is an artist and graphic journalist. Her work

appears frequently in the New York Times and she's had a handful of best-selling books,

but the main reason I wanted to talk to her today is that she has produced a stunningly touching book called How to Say Goodbye.

I'd grab it off the shelf and be like, oh oh it's going to tell me how to do this thing but then the first thing you learn is there's no right way to do this.

There's no one way to say goodbye.

Welcome to people I mostly admire with Steve Leavitt.

There is no doubt that Wendy and I are very different types of people.

Conversations between opposites can be really good. that Wendy and I are very different types of people.

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