Welcome to Upfront with me Simon Jordan. This episode is something slightly different. It's the best bits.

When I was asked to do this podcast with William Hill, I wanted to have people with strong opinions that could stand them up under proper scrutiny.

I wanted a people with a range of backgrounds from different sports to find out what made them tick.

One of the most robust conversations I had was with John Barnes about discrimination and whether

our national game was institutionally racist.

And I wanted to explore this complex and pejorative subject in great detail.

You equate the lack of opportunities that you had through managerial positions.

Not just me.

But let's just do it with you.

No, no, no, no.

No, because what you're doing.

Then you'll say, oh, because you failed or whatever.

Forget about me because you have.

Do you think, put it this way, put it this way.

Do you think, and I love Frank, Frank Lampard.

Yeah.

You think with Frank Lampard's record, if you was black, you'll be given opportunities.

I don't think he should have been given this opportunity.

But he is.

But why would he have been?

Let's talk about Celtic.

Yeah, exactly.

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