Welcome to Current Affairs. My name is Nathan Robinson. I'm the editor-in-chief of Current Affairs

Magazine. I am joined today by Jeremy Scahill. He is senior correspondent, as well as editor-at-large,

at The Intercept, the author of Dirty Wars and Blackwater. He has recently written a number of

articles on Israel's War on Gaza, including at the Hague, Israel,

mounted a defense based in an alternate reality.

In the genocide case against Israel, at the Hague, the U.S. is the unnamed co-conspirator,

and his latest, which is Joe Biden wants you to believe he's opposed to genocide in Gaza.

Jeremy Skahill, thank you for joining us of Kurt Affairs.

Great to be with you, Nathan.

All right, so readers of the New York Times recently might have seen two perspectives on the case brought by South Africa against Israel

in the International Court of Justice.

On the one hand, they will have read an op-ed by Megan Stack, who says that reading the

84-page complaint makes the mind real.

How could it happen? How was it allowed to happen? Saying the harrowing

details go on and on. On the other hand, readers of the New York Times would open their paper two

days later and read columnist Brett Stevens calling the very idea of invoking the genocide convention

or the word genocide, a moral obscenity that flips

reality on its head, because Hamas is the true genocidal party saying that distorts our

understanding of reality and is unconscionable to accuse the Jewish state of the very kind of act that Jews were subjected to in the Holocaust.

Jeremy Schahel, you have been following the ICJ proceedings, and I think you have a pretty strong view.

So which of these is closer to the truth?

But perhaps you could tell us.

...