Hi, it's Diane. On my mind, the dark secrets of Johnson and Johnson. Founded in the late

1800s, the company grew into one of the most trusted brands in America, baby powder band-aids, then cutting-edge pharmaceuticals.

But behind that success, says the investigative journalist Gardner Harris,

lies awake of deceitful and dangerous corporate practices that had threatened the lives of millions.

These guys are incredibly intimidating, and when they don't succeed in sort of buying you off,

which is what they have done over the decades for doctors, journalists, and lawyers, they sue.

Gardner Harris is a former pharmaceutical reporter for the New York Times.

He's been decades looking into the long history of lies, cover-ups, and malfeasance of Johnson and Johnson.

He joins me to talk about his new book, No More Tears.

Gardner-A-Harris, this is such a devastating book about Johnson and Johnson.

I wonder how you got it published.

Well, it's a really good question, Diane.

I mean, in many ways this book was kind of a suicide mission.

I can't tell you the number of people as I reported the book who said that I was crazy and this would never succeed,

never get out. You know, there are countless examples of people who came before me and tried

to do portions of this book and these stories. And those journalists told me that Johnson and Johnson called their headquarters, told them that

they would pull all of their advertisements if this went through, and the pieces got killed. And that

is a story that was told to me again and again and again. And of course, Johnson and Johnson in many

ways is a law firm with

a drug subsidiary and a device subsidiary attached to it.

That's an interesting way to put it.

Well, they've spent $35 billion on lawyers since 2011, which is roughly 15% of what every major corporation in the country

...