The co-authors of a new paper discuss how to block illicit activity without turning neutral software into financial institutions.  Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Fountain, Overcast, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Pandora, Castbox, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform. Trying to regulate DeFi is a huge challenge because in a truly decentralized system, there should be no centralized actors to make and enforce rules for. This could make combating illicit finance challenging since traditionally, regulation has been targeted at centralized intermediaries. Yet Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon Labs; Michael Mosier, the co-founder of boutique law firm Arktouros; and Katja Gilman, senior lead for public policy at Polygon Labs, published a paper last week that proposes to do just that.  Rettig and Mosier join Unchained to discuss what prompted them to write the paper, what the difference is between "onchain CeFi" and "genuine DeFi," how targeting high-risk wallets can be one part of the solution, how critical communications transmitters (CCTs) are another piece of the puzzle, and what next steps they are pursuing.  Show highlights |  The motivations behind their paper and Michael and Rebecca’s legal backgrounds Why Michael views the Bank Secrecy Act as outdated in the context of DeFi How critical KYC and AML compliance is for the integrity of DeFi What Rebecca identifies as the principal risks in the DeFi sector Why their proposal target the protocol layer for effective DeFi regulation How "onchain CeFi" differs fundamentally from "genuine DeFi" Whether a decentralized protocol can be effectively regulated when controlled by a DAO How if DeFi were to be classified as critical infrastructure by the Cyber and Information Security Agency (CISA), it would impact the sector Whether the critical components of blockchain networks, such as RPCs, can be regulated effectively How categorizing wallets based on risk can be one part of the solution to fighting illicit finance Why Rebecca considers Tornado Cash a prime example of “genuine DeFi” What steps Rebecca and Michael plan to take next following the publication of their paper Thank you to our sponsors!  Popcorn Network  |  Polkadot - Guests | Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon Labs Previous appearances on Unchained: Just a Coincidence? Coinbase and Polygon Lawyers See Bad Omens in SEC Crackdown Kik’s Surprising Move in Its Lawsuit With the SEC Michael Mosier, cofounder of Arktouros PLLC Links |  Previous coverage of Unchained on the topic: Could the Bank Secrecy Act Harm Crypto? Coin Center Thinks So  Full paper: Genuine DeFi as Critical Infrastructure: A Conceptual Framework for Combating Illicit Finance Activity in Decentralized Finance Rebecca’s thread Coin Center: Broad, Ambiguous, or Delegated: Constitutional Infirmities of the Bank Secrecy Act Tornado Cash Unchained: Given the Sanctions on Tornado Cash, Is Ethereum Censorship Resistant? Illicit funds in crypto: Unchained: How Much Money Are Terrorists Actually Raising in Crypto? Rebecca Rettig, Chief Legal and Policy Officer at Polygon Labs Michael Mosier, Cofounder of Arktouros PLLC - Unchained Podcast is Produced by Laura Shin Media, LLC.  Distributed by CoinDesk. Senior Producer is Michele Musso and Executive Producer is Jared Schwartz. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.