Hi, I'm Wendy Zuckerman and you're listening to Science Verses from Gimlet.

Lately on the show, we've been talking a lot about misinformation, the problems it can

cause, how it spreads, and what to do about it.

But there's an even more blatant way that people undermine the facts, and it's called

disinformation.

This is where fake information is spread deliberately to mislead people.

And this has been a huge issue with Russia and its war on Ukraine.

And it's Russia attacked Ukraine a month ago.

They've been pumping out propaganda.

Basically, trying to create an alternate reality that's a million miles away from the

facts.

So today, we're going to hear it from two journalists who are trying to tell the real

story here.

They're looking at what's actually been happening on the front lines, and what Ukrainians have

been experiencing during these Russian attacks.

So meet Piotr Russaban, he's an independent journalist from Russia.

I was born and I grew in Moscow.

Several years ago, he fell in love with and then married Natalcu Manik, the Ukrainian

who lives in Kiev.

I began to start living between two cities.

She's also a journalist, a famous one in Ukraine.

A month ago, they were together in Kiev when Russia invaded Ukraine, and the war started.

...