Ukraine: War Crimes & Cluster Bombs

Warfare

History Hit

History

4.5 • 943 Ratings

🗓️ 14 July 2023

⏱️ 34 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

As over a year passes since the Bucha Massacre, new information and intelligence on Russian war crimes continues to emerge from the conflict. With evidence suggesting a systematic and intentional attempt to terrorise the Ukrainian population, and disturbing accounts of the unlawful deportation of Ukrainian children - lives and families are continuing to be torn apart in the Russian-Ukraine war. With Ukrainian prosecution already gathering evidence and holding trials, more revelations are expected to come out of Ukraine in the coming months. But with Ukraine holding the moral high ground of the conflict, the recent decision by the United States to provide Cluster Munitions to Ukraine raises questions about how the rest of the world will perceive the country's moral standing in the conflict

In this episode, James welcomes Professor Oona Hathaway from Yale University to the podcast to provide an update on Bucha over a year later, and examine the moral debate surrounding Cluster Munitions. With Ukraine nearly out of munitions, and worldwide supplies failing to reach demand - is it fair to say Ukraine is losing the moral high ground, or is it really their only option?

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Transcript

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0:00.0	In recent days there have been worrying and hotly debated reports that the Biden administration will send U.S. stockpiles of cluster bombs to Ukraine.
0:08.0	Why? Well, it's argued that they are essential in bridging the staggering shortfalls of munitions the Ukrainians face in their fight against
0:16.0	Russia. There's no choice, it's argued. Without them, the Ukrainians may need to fall back,
0:21.3	opening the door to increased Russian war crimes in previously liberated
0:25.3	regions. Others argue that there must be another option. The use of cluster bombs is a dark and
0:31.4	dangerous road to go down, one that marks a worrying descent of Western moral standards to that of the levels of the Russian military who already use cluster bombs in the conflict.
0:42.0	I'm your host, James Patton Rogers, this is warfare, and with the
0:45.2	laws of war and Russian war crimes in mind, I've invited Honor Hathaway back onto the podcast.
0:50.9	Honor is Professor of International Law at Yale Law School, and she has been a member of the Advisory Committee
0:56.2	on International Law for the U.S. Department of State since 2005.
1:01.6	She was previously special counsel to the General Counsel at the U.S. Department of Defense.
1:06.0	And it's with honours expertise and experience that we can take a deep dive into the broader claims about Russian war crimes, including the deliberate targeting of civilians,
1:16.0	and we can discuss whether or not cluster bombs are the right route to go down to hold back the Russian invasion.
1:22.0	Unsurprisingly, given the nature of the topic being discussed,
1:25.0	this episode contains content that some listeners may find upsetting.
1:29.0	But as I always say, this is an important topic.
1:32.0	One we're fortunate enough to have honor with us to discuss.
1:35.0	Hi, honor.
1:38.0	Welcome back to Warfare.
1:40.0	You were last with us in September, I think, and it was at a time when the world was still trying to come to terms and arguably still is, with what happened in Butcher on the outskirts of Kiev, where it's now estimated that 461 civilians were killed
1:56.1	and many were tortured by the Russian military. Now it's over a year since those
2:02.0	Russian war crimes took place and I thought it was important
	...

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