From the New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernici. This is the Daily.

Today, to the outside world, Russia's relentless bombardment of Ukraine looks indiscriminate and improvised.

In fact, it's part of a strategic playbook that Russia first devised 30 years ago in a different war.

My colleague, Carlotta Gaul, covered that war and explains why the Russian playbook used back then

is essential to understanding what happens next in Ukraine.

It's Thursday, March 24.

Carlotta, you're in Kiev. And the last time I saw you, I had come to your apartment and brought you take out pizzas.

That's right. That was great. And then you had to rush back before the curfew.

I did. So we were sitting at the table and talking.

And I remember telling you that at the very beginning of the war, everybody, myself included, thought that the war would be quick,

that the mighty Russian military would roll in and take the country in a week, or even a weekend.

And I remember you telling me that you never believed that. And when I asked you why you gave me an answer, I kept thinking about.

Do you remember what you said?

I think I said that I thought the Ukrainians would fight, but I also, I think, said, reminds me of Chechnya, 30 years ago, nearly 30 years ago.

And as you know, I covered the wars in Chechnya intensively.

In fact, I was the foreign journalist who spent the most time down there in the early 90s.

And I saw at first hand the Russians crushing a people who were trying to stand up and be independent.

And of course, it was a formative experience for me as a young journalist, but it stuck with me ever since.

And I have this great feeling of recognition and familiarity already.

The sounds are some of the same, the bombs that are dropping. But also this terrible feeling of dread of what this is going to turn out to be.

You said that the most important point of reference for understanding what's happening in Ukraine today is understanding what happened in Chechnya in the 1990s.

So bring us to that time and place, Carlotta. What was the situation?

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