This is intercepted.

Welcome to intercepted I'm Jeremy Scayhill.

And I'm Murtazo Hussain.

The war in Ukraine now dragging into its second year has entered a critical phase.

The Ukrainian military is currently in the midst of a counteroffensive aimed at pushing Russian troops out of its territory this summer.

The most conservative estimates say that the war, triggered by Russia's invasion in early 2022, has killed tens of thousands of people on both sides, and perhaps far more.

Despite widespread suffering and destruction, including to civilian areas in Ukraine, the conflict still has no end in sight.

The outcome of the summer offensive, as well as shifting political ties in the United States, will have a huge influence on the final outcome of this bloody conflict whenever it does come to an end.

We're joined now by Rajan Menon. He's the director of the Grand Strategy Program at Defense Priorities. That's a think tank.

Most recently he was a professor at City College of New York and before that at several other universities.

Rajan, it's great to have you with us. Thanks for being here on intercepted.

Thank you Jeremy. Thank you Murtazo.

So you just got back from a trip to Ukraine. You've gone back and forth to Ukraine a number of times since the Russian invasion escalated last February.

Tell us where you were in Ukraine, how long you were there for and the purpose of this visit.

So this was my third visit and on this particular one, I spent some time in Kiev because there were a number of meetings that I had scheduled and a conference that I attended at which there were

various American military experts and including some former generals.

After that I drove with a friend of mine who runs an NGO in Kiev about 350 miles east to Harkev, which used to be until 1934 the capital of the Soviet Republic of Ukraine.

Now when you get from Harkev further east, that is eastern Harkev province. You are in what is or what used to be a conflict zone.

And from there I went to various towns that may be familiar to you, certainly to those who follow the war very closely.

In no particular order is Yom, Slavians, Kravatorsk, Balaklia, Konstantinivka.

And I was within about three miles of what they call the zero line in Bachmuth.

And your trip was over the course of how many days, how long were you there?

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