This is a

This is CBS Eye on the World with John Bachelor.

Here's John Bachelor.

Ukraine conflict two years later, I welcome Anatole

leaving of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft

and highlighting and recommending the conversation that Anatole joined in with his

colleague George Bebe of the Quincy and Michael Kimage of the Catholic University of America professor about two years in and

what is to be done.

And reminding me in the course of this conversation quite spirited and comprehensive, about an hour, it's good listening.

You can follow along with a transcript.

It was moderated by Kelly Vlegos. Well done. What you learn is that your eyes on the battlefield, mine in particular

need to raise up, get out of the battlefield John, look at the horizon, look at the horizon look at the European Union what it's achieved

since the second war look at what the Russians have given up in these two years look at the

rest of the map don't just focus on will they or won't they fall back anymore.

And I told a very good evening to you.

Negotiations, we've talked of it for weeks, but in the course of the conversation with your colleagues, I was reminded all that Kief has in its hand, all the cards that Kief has because of its good working relationship with many leaders of the EU, as well as many

leaders of NATO.

All those cards that Russia must deal with in the pending a negotiation.

Did I hear that correctly, Anna told, that things are not as gloomy as Avdivka indicates.

Good evening to you.

Hello, John.

Well, yes, I mean, in a negotiation with Russia, Ukraine does have some strong cards.

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