This is the Friends of History Debating Society.

I welcome Thaddeus McCotter at American Greatness,

commenting on the challenge in Europe here with months to go to the election.

NATO and Ukraine and Kief.

The NATO meeting in Washington in July

is said to be a big powwow about what comes next,

including a new Secretary General. That is a very

good evening to you. NATO versus Moscow, NATO supporting Kyiv versus Moscow. Are

these profound distinctions? Because from the Moscow

point of view this is a war with NATO, not with Ukraine. Good evening to you.

Good evening to you, John. I was trying to divine some of the hairline fishers that were seeing within

NATO itself in dealing with the Ukraine crisis. And I want to say a front, obviously, I oppose the Russian aggression and the illegal occupation of Ukraine

And I wish that Mr Putin could be beaten back into the hole from which he crawled out of

But that does not seem to be the case. So in addressing Ukraine

we're starting to see fishers within the unified front that NATO was

presenting and one of the issues that I wrote about this week was the potential for Ukraine membership within NATO itself.

Now, John, given your podcast with other individuals and so forth.

Just leave it by putting on the table the fact that if somebody joins NATO,

you've got Article 5, which means an attack on one, is an attack on all.

If Ukraine joins the NATO membership, that

would be an ongoing conflict, that would be an attack on one occurring which

would render the potential triggering of Article 5 and attack on all.

...