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The Lawfare Podcast

Two Courts Rule on Presidential Immunity

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

International Law, Government, Military, Rule Of Law, International Relations, History, News, Terrorism, Politics, Law, Intelligence, National Security, Foreign Policy, Constitutional Law, Diplomacy, Current Events

4.76.4K Ratings

🗓️ 5 December 2023

⏱️ 58 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

On Friday, two courts weighed in on the question of presidential immunity. First, Judge Chutkan of the DC District Court ruled that Trump is not immune from Special Counsel Jack Smith’s criminal prosecution for his conduct on Jan. 6. In the second, the DC Circuit Court ruled that Trump is not immune from a civil suit brought by members of Congress and Capitol Police officers, also relating to his conduct on Jan. 6.

To talk through the decisions, Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Roger Parloff along with Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes. They discussed the nuances of both opinions, how the analysis is consistent and how it is different, and what each case implies about the other—and what comes next.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

The following podcast contains advertising.

0:04.0

To access an ad-free version of the Lawfair Podcast,

0:08.0

become a material supporter of Lawfair at Patreon.com slash Lawfair. That's Patreon.com

0:16.4

slash Lawfair. Also check out Lawfair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, lawfare no bull, and the aftermath.

0:30.0

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0:51.3

Check the Uber app. They propose a sort of framework for figuring it out, which is you look at the circumstances of the event

1:06.1

and you say, is it more like a State of the Union address or is it more like a campaign event?

1:12.4

And they look at the January 6th speech. or is it more like a campaign event?

1:12.6

And they look at the January 6th speech

1:14.8

and say, this is outside the outer perimeter.

1:18.4

And so this has enormous implications

1:21.4

for a lot of personal litigation against Donald Trump during the

1:26.6

period that he's president. A lot of people have withheld such litigation on the

1:32.4

theory that Nixon Fitzgerald was a very broad

1:35.5

grant of immunity which it is but here the DC circuit has articulated a limit of

1:41.0

that immunity and I think one that is likely to carry some weight

1:46.6

with the Supreme Court. I'm Natalie Orpete executive editor of Law Fair and

1:51.8

this is the Law Fair Podcast, December 5th, 2023.

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