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This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Trump vs NATO: Could Europe survive alone?

This Is Not A Drill with Gavin Esler

Podmasters

News, Society & Culture, Politics

4.91.6K Ratings

🗓️ 14 February 2024

⏱️ 37 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The fear that a re-elected Trump would pull the US out of NATO haunts European leaders. Now he says he’d actively encourage Putin to attack European countries who haven’t “paid their bills”. Could a second Trump presidency really open the door for war in Europe? What contingency plans is NATO making? Has Europe really underspent on defence? And is Putin exploiting cracks in the European hard right and left for his own ends? Gavin Esler talks to historian and Senior Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute Dr Helene von Bismarck and Peter Apps, author of Deterring Armageddon: A Biography Of NATO, about Trump’s dangerous ideas and populism’s Putin problem. • “It would be incredibly naive to imagine that, if Trump is re-elected, Europe will simple reorganise itself to compensate… That takes time and it is time we don’t have.” – Helene von Bismarck • “Regardless of whether we get another Trump presidency, the days in which Europe was America’s top priority are over.” – Peter Apps • “In the next five to eight years it’s not impossible that Russia might attack a NATO state… We have to start preparing to prevent this worst-case scenario.” – Helene von Bismarck • “The head of the Estonian military talks in terms of Russia being able to recharge enough to attack a NATO country within one year of fighting stopping in Ukraine.” – Peter Apps Support This Is Not A Drill on Patreon to get early episodes, merchandise and more. When you buy books through our affiliate links you’re helping This Is Not A Drill by earning us a small commission for every sale. Bookshop.org’s fees help support independent bookshops too. Written and presented by Gavin Esler. Produced by Robin Leeburn. Original theme music by Paul Hartnoll – https://www.orbitalofficial.com. Executive Producer Martin Bojtos. Group Editor Andrew Harrison. This Is Not A Drill is a Podmasters production Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:32.0

Embracing the icy crisp winter air, warming your hands with a Starbucks,

0:36.7

wrapping up in snugly layers upon layers. The signs are all there.

0:41.3

You're entering your cozy era.

0:43.2

And there's nothing cozier than the limited edition Starbucks Arm and Biscotti O'Late.

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A new smooth and warming twist on a classic.

0:51.0

Whatever era you're in, find your perfect order in store on Star. on a Security is not regional security is global. What happens in Europe matters for Asia,

1:08.6

what happens in Asia matters for Europe and today it's Ukraine tomorrow it can be Taiwan so this is truly a

1:15.4

joint effort by all NATO allies from both sides of the Atlantic and I'm

1:21.7

confident that all NATO allies will continue to deliver.

1:25.0

One of the presidents of a big country who stood up and said,

1:29.0

well, sir, if we don't pay and we're attacked by Russia, will you protect us? I said you didn't pay?

1:36.0

No, I would not protect you. In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.

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