Welcome to the Dispatch podcast. I'm Jamie Weinstein. My guest today is a returning one, Harvey Mansfield,

the longtime professor at Harvard University, one of the few conservative professors on the faculty,

taught there for over 50 years before retiring last year. He famously taught some of the biggest names

in politics. He always comes packed with insight. So we brought him on to

discuss the fight between Harvard and the Trump administration and many other topics. As always,

I think you're going to find this episode interesting, but this one particularly fascinating.

So without further ado, I give you Professor Harvey Mansfield.

Thank you. further ado, I give you Professor Harvey Mansfield. Professor Harvey Mansfield, welcome back to this best podcast. Thanks, good to be here.

Well, Professor, it's always good to

have you on, but I've thought of you as the mounting battle between Harvard and the Trump administration

heats up. So let me begin by just asking you, what do you make of this fight between Harvard

in the Trump administration? The Trump administration wants Harvard to change its life, to cease to be the one-sided partisan

institution that it appears to be and to become the nonpartisan institution that it says it is.

And so the Trump administration has put forth strong demands that would make Harvard a kind of

in a quote in a receivership, which all his decisions would be audited,

and the federal government, which means the Trump administration, would be looking over his shoulder

and questioning everything that it did. So, Harvard naturally refuses that, but it's, and it is done so with a lawsuit,

so that it's made its rejection pretty clear, but it doesn't really know what to do.

Harvard is in a pickle.

It's long practiced, a very one-sided program called Diversity,

which totally lacks the main feature of diversity, which is

viewpoint diversity, that is diverse opinions. It's formed almost an informal alliance with

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