Hello, I'm James Wood, and this year on the LRB's Close Reading's podcast, I'm asking,

Who's Afraid of Realism? I'll be taking a range of great novels and short stories,

from Flobe's Madame Bovary and Dostoevsky's Notes from Underground, up to more recent works

by Amit Chowdhury and Gwendolyn Riley. And I'll be examining what makes and makes

for the real. How does realism produce its effects? What's the difference between artifice

and artificiality? And who is and has been afraid of realism and why? The series starts with

two episodes on Madame Bovary, which you can listen to right now.

And in the third episode, I'll be talking to Adam Thurlwell about Dostoevsky.

You can find a link in the description, or search close readings, wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. Hello, you're listening to the London Review of Books podcast. I'm your host, Adam Schatz,

and on this week's episode, we'll be talking about the war that Donald Trump and his allies are waging through the use of executive orders, targeting everything from birthright

citizenship and protest in support of Palestinian rights to academic freedom, constitutionally

protected speech, and efforts to ensure inclusion on the basis of race, gender,

and sexual orientation. My guests are the philosopher Judith Butler, who teaches at the

University of California, Berkeley, and Aziz Rana, a professor of law at Boston College Law School.

Thanks so much for joining us on the podcast, Judith and Aziz.

Pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for having us. Judith podcast, Judith and Aziz. Pleasure to be here.

Thanks so much for having us.

Judith, I'd like to start by asking you a few questions about your recent piece in the

London Review on executive order 14168 issued on the first day of Trump's second term in office.

I imagine that you experienced a grim sense of vindication

when this order was announced since it underscored just how central to the far right is the

...