Welcome back to the City Journal podcast.

I'm your host, Charles Fain Lehman, a fellow with Manhattan Institute and senior editor of City Journal.

Joining me on the panel this week are James D. Mortino, Immigration Scholar at the Manhattan Institute, Jesse Arm, executive director of Sundry Things at the Manhattan Institute, and Rina Mukugi, higher ed, and identity scholar at the politics scholar.

Really, you do a lot of things right now at the Manhattan Institute.

Welcome to everybody. Thanks to joining us today. I want to take us right

into the news. There have been a couple of developments in the past week that I want us to hit on

with the Trump administration's moves on student visas. Most recently, the State Department ordered

U.S. embassies to pause new student visa appointment as it moves to expand social media

vetting of applicants. That follows the administration's direct targeting of Harvard's ability

to admit foreign students last week. Trump most recently said he probably wants a 15% cap on

foreign-born students at Harvard. So I think, you know, there's a really interesting tension,

actually, for this group here, between, on the one hand, the merits of skills-based immigration. The student visa

category is a good way to be bringing smart people in. And the other hand, I think the administration's

legitimate concerns about student radicals on our campus and the student visa program being a method by which they can get here. So I'm curious to everybody's thoughts. Daniel, you're the immigration guy. I wanted to take a hand. And, you know, I came to America as a student too. Right. I was like, can I ask you any of him about this? He's currently on a different visa. Yes, yes, yes. But, you know, even then, I think it's important to understand the context. And, you know, Elon Musk came here as a student as well. You know, most people who come here on the basis of their skills come here as students. And if you want a school or a country that is enriched by, you could say, experiences or the smart people around the world,

and it's a good thing. Now, I would say also at least in my anecdotal experience of the people I have met,

at least in economics programs, the most far-left people are native-born. They're not foreign.

Now, on specifically the anti-Semitism stuff, it may be true that people from Muslim countries and who happen to be Muslims themselves

are really the radicals, right? But if that's the case, though, Charles,

then this is not a systemic issue about foreign students.

This is about who the foreign students are.

And this is also about who Harvard admits.

It is not that they admit people who are foreign,

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